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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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episode number 75 on the twenty-sixth of

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march 2010 Richard Saunders here with

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you once again on this week's show we

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have an interview with Julian morrow

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from the chasers war on everything

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program shown here on the ABC and

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Australia it's conducted by Kylie

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Sturgis very funny man he's going to

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discuss being at the Atheist convention

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earlier this month and some of the more

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outrageous stunts they got up to during

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the filming of the chasers war and

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everything that's followed by dr. Reggie

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reports she's going to be talking to

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mark Carter in the Northern Territory

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here in Australia about things like fish

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falling from the sky after that we have

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a grain of salt with a run so give

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looking at hair loss or should I say

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hair regrowth following that a very

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special thing tank with a special guest

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none other than PZ Myers now before we

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get on to the show a special thank you

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from me to all the skeptics own team

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members who work so hard every week to

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bring interviews and other great things

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to you so sit back grab that knife soda

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water and enjoy this week's episode of

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I'm Carly Sturgis and I'm talking to

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Julian morrow Julian morrow is a member

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of the chaser an Australian satirical

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comedian group most famous for their

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television programs on the ABC The

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Chaser originated as a satirical

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newspaper which was known to push the

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limits as to what it published and for

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enacting its mission statement striving

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for mediocrity in a world of excellence

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after attending the global atheist

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convention in Melbourne I had the

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opportunity to speak to Julian about his

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career as a comedian his views on

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atheism and of course skepticism

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Julianne Moore i first started his

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career as a lawyer and you might be

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familiar with the entry of an apex

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security zone in 2007 masquerading is

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the motorcade of the Canadian delegation

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to a pet furious about a security breach

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at the APEC conference in Sydney a

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motorcade of vehicles got through the

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cordons and delivered a man dressed as

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Osama bin Laden to the front door of

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George Bush's hotel it turns out those

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responsible were from a TV satire

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program the chase report Channel Seven's

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Chris freeze and reports thank you very

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much for joining me Julian it's a great

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pleasure now we met at the global

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atheist convention Saturday night dinner

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which was held in Melbourne earlier this

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month that's right I found out the name

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of the first person you kissed oh no

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that's going to be everywhere now isn't

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it well it was because of a very

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skeptical illusionist to who managed to

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get you on stage without realizing

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you're the conference convener yes yes

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the fabulous Simon Taylor he's um quite

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a bit of a figure over there in the

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Victorian skeptic scene with his magical

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illusions and so forth you know he was

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really good hmm so how difficult is it

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to make fun of religion oh look it's not

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that hard it's almost as hard as making

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fun of atheism yes and you managed to do

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that quite well by posting up a large

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poster which made a lot of fun of the

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Atheist bus banners that have been going

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around yeah that's what that was

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actually it was fun too

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lay that at the convention because it

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was actually a piece of footage that

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we've made for the chases war on

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everything series 3 but didn't broadcast

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and it followed from the you know the

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Atheist bus ad thing that started in in

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London and we happen to be in London

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around the time because we were shooting

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for the war and everything and we

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basically made our own little sign for

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you know in treating the London

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commuters to bow down to the the Dark

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Lord Satan just to try and even out the

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the debate between atheism and and and

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religious people we thought that Satan

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need to get a bit of a look in it was

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actually really fun stunt to do although

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it didn't quite work for the just as a

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package for our general audience and

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what was kind of sitting there on the

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shelf and we figured if it didn't get a

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laugh or the ideas convention it was

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never going to get one and we were

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pretty glad that it did it went down

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pretty well I said it went down

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wonderfully well yeah now to set the

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scene a little for people who might be

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listening to our show who aren't

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familiar with your work there's an

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article that was originally printed in

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The Sydney Morning Herald and it's

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featured on a Richard Dawkins website

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that's right yeah the one about the

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crack annoyance squad for what was then

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the 2008 world youth day and you

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describe yourself as a lapsed Catholic

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elapsed lawyer elapsed chaser comedian

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and a practicing criminal so do you also

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describe yourself as a skeptic I look

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I'd say so I mean I'm not a mean yeah

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look I'm a great believer in there in

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rationalism I'm not a very scientific

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person and basically you know elementary

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concepts that most intelligent people

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should understand in the science world

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completely bemuse me but but I do

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believe that there are always rational

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explanations for for things and I

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suppose the other thing I would say is

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that I I do think that excessive

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rationality is as much a flaw as

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excessive spiritualism or occultism so

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you know the other I think that there's

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a balance to be struck in all these

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things

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asserts we're having a laugh at oneself

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comes into it as well well it comes

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naturally to us a funny thing being a

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comedian in one sense all the sort of

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kind of lowbrow cheap shot comedians

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that we are is it's essentially a

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negative pursuit you know it's about

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knocking down well hopefully those

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people in positions of authority but

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sometimes just innocent victims as well

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we can't pretend otherwise at the chaser

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and as I suppose to some extent that's

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similar to skepticism in terms of trying

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to you know the pierce the well you know

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falsehoods and pretensions claims that

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are more extravagant than they can

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possibly realistically be but as far as

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that's not the end of the game either

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there's there is a place for for the

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more positive side of things it's just

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that you add the chaser we're

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chronically incapable of it so we'd over

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Tim what led you to begin firstly as a

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lawyer and then become an entertainer um

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well look III did law for lack of

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imagination really ah what you like but

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yeah but I but actually I mean there's a

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kind of common thing of lawyers going

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into comedy and talking about how much

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they hated their law career I'm far more

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boring that actually really liked my

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career as a lawyer I became a lawyer

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because I was taught in an employment

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and industrial law by a fantastic man

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called professor Ranma Callum is

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actually I believe the first blind law

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professor in Australia at least and he's

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an amazing guy very inspirational and

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certainly inspired me to to work as an

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employment lawyer for a while but I

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suppose the link with comedy is that as

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a lawyer essentially your job is to play

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with the meaning of words you know

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essentially clients pay you to twist the

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meaning of words in their favor in a way

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which sometimes is very useful in other

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times is outrageously unjust and

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disgraceful but it's about playing with

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the meaning of words and comedy

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essentially is

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about setting up expectations in the

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meaning of words and then and then

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submerging them more often than not so

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how did you become an entertainer than

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joining the chases and becoming the

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powerhouse that you are media well that

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there was a period in the late 1990s

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where some of my mates from University

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who'd done Arts degrees they weren't

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they hadn't done the law degrees were in

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serious danger of having to get a real

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job oh no no that was that was untenable

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as far as we were concerned yes I think

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as far as a lot of the legitimate work

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force that was well there were no real

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prospects but we thought the just in

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case that happened we should start up

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this satirical newspaper so we also

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started really as writers writing the

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chase of newspaper which was a parody of

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a tabloid newspaper and we did that for

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a while we had a we had I think probably

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one of the funniest things we've ever

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written was our business plan that was

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an absolute it was a complete joke and

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we we were going to do I think eight

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editions of the print newspaper and if

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it if it didn't succeed after eight

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editions on financial grounds we were

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going to end the paper and you know go

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back to it to whatever our other

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pursuits were and after eight editions

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it was an absolute disaster financially

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but we were kind of enjoying ourselves

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that we resolved it to close the

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newspaper down but because we're so

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administratively lacks it took us about

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five years to do and in the meantime we

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just kept pumping out this this

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newspaper it was an act of phenomenal

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arrogant it's because nobody read it but

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we did send it to the sorts of people

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who we you know would have liked to to

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meet really it was basically a kind of

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kind of intellectual comedy flirt

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routine but but Andrew Denton started

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subscribing and then came along to one

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of our parties and then he gave us out

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our first break in television so we were

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very lucky so what do you consider good

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comedy then look it well I mean we know

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more than most of these things are

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matters of taste I have a you know a

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dark a sense of humor than a lot of of

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our audience does I mean I i I'm a very

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worthy person I tend to like

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of things that play with the structure

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of language and stuff like that so a lot

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of british comedies great along those

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lines are particularly like the mighty

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boosh oh yeah and and some of niall

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Fielding's live routines which are ya

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this sort of stuff that Noam Chomsky

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should should wrap his head around

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sometime because it's it's completely

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nonsensical in its content but at the

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same time has a certain logic to it that

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you intuitively understand so I think

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he's pretty good I think she won the

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Caliph's that probably the best comedian

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in Australia at the moment and one of

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things I like about him is that he kind

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of deconstructs the the will plant plays

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with the structure of language more than

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most average Australian comedians I'm a

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complete devotee of the daily show and

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the colbert report and I like well I

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like Bill Maher show real-time probably

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more for the comedy than for the

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intellectual content to be honest but

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but yeah there's plenty there's plenty

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of good comedy to keep you going

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actually do you think that there's a

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rising number of comedian entertainers

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who use Pro atheists and pro skeptic

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material in their acts or how we just

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noticing them or look I think there's

276
00:12:04,090 --> 00:12:01,450
always been you know that kind of strain

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in comedy because it because comedies

278
00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:07,970
sit essentially pretty cynical and so I

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suppose there's a there's a natural kind

280
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of commonality between those two things

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we're probably noticing a little bit

282
00:12:21,220 --> 00:12:19,820
more but by the many in the end I think

283
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there's good comedy and bad comedy i

284
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think that the beliefs that you have

285
00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:25,690
behind it don't really matter that much

286
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you've got to make your audience laughs

287
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and and and that's true if it's a

288
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religion sort religious audience or a

289
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theist one a favorite chaser sketch of

290
00:12:39,579 --> 00:12:37,850
mine is when the members of the team

291
00:12:41,829 --> 00:12:39,589
dress up as the Ghostbusters and

292
00:12:44,949 --> 00:12:41,839
confront John Edward with a

293
00:12:46,870 --> 00:12:44,959
meter ok ok how did that come about how

294
00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:46,880
did you get all that was that that was

295
00:12:52,180 --> 00:12:48,770
funny actually because we knew that John

296
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Edward was in town and we knew that he

297
00:12:56,680 --> 00:12:54,440
was doing an interview on The Today Show

298
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so we'd actually sent

299
00:13:03,430 --> 00:13:00,860
our researchers up to to kind of stake

300
00:13:05,650 --> 00:13:03,440
out the channel 9 studios or willoughby

301
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:05,660
and then to follow John Edwards car when

302
00:13:10,290 --> 00:13:07,850
he came off air they did that but

303
00:13:12,970 --> 00:13:10,300
unfortunately we weren't able to get the

304
00:13:15,070 --> 00:13:12,980
all the props and stuff together our art

305
00:13:16,300 --> 00:13:15,080
department did an amazing job that day

306
00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:16,310
because we briefed them at about eight

307
00:13:21,610 --> 00:13:17,810
o'clock that we wanted to dress up as

308
00:13:23,500 --> 00:13:21,620
Ghostbusters and they made now what do

309
00:13:26,260 --> 00:13:23,510
they call those Power Packs that the

310
00:13:29,650 --> 00:13:26,270
Ghostbusters had oh yes a sort of laser

311
00:13:31,930 --> 00:13:29,660
yeah yeah yeah well how versions were

312
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like a kind of play school mock up of

313
00:13:36,670 --> 00:13:34,910
made out of items of office station read

314
00:13:39,850 --> 00:13:36,680
about 10 minutes notice but I did a

315
00:13:43,590 --> 00:13:39,860
great job and unfortunately however we

316
00:13:46,690 --> 00:13:43,600
missed Edward before he got back to his

317
00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:46,700
his hotel in the city so we kind of

318
00:13:51,580 --> 00:13:49,370
staked out the hotel for a while and

319
00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:51,590
eventually we were kind of in visiting

320
00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:52,970
or gonna have to follow this guy to the

321
00:13:56,650 --> 00:13:54,650
entertainment center or whatever and try

322
00:13:58,960 --> 00:13:56,660
and get past his security eventually

323
00:14:01,390 --> 00:13:58,970
wandered out the front door and was

324
00:14:04,420 --> 00:14:01,400
walking along circular key as it turned

325
00:14:08,230 --> 00:14:04,430
out in his very mainstream American ways

326
00:14:10,570 --> 00:14:08,240
to go down to mcdonalds to to try the

327
00:14:11,830 --> 00:14:10,580
local mcdonalds cuisine you know

328
00:14:14,110 --> 00:14:11,840
obviously it wasn't Australia so I

329
00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:14,120
wanted to have him Agha's to see what

330
00:14:19,780 --> 00:14:17,930
our culture was like and and so we all

331
00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:19,790
ran after him and while hiding around

332
00:14:24,460 --> 00:14:21,290
the corner waiting for him to come out

333
00:14:26,410 --> 00:14:24,470
of his of McDonald's it was really funny

334
00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:26,420
actually because we were hiding in this

335
00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:28,490
place and mysteriously he just started

336
00:14:33,100 --> 00:14:31,490
walking straight towards us we would

337
00:14:35,050 --> 00:14:33,110
completely freaked out all our

338
00:14:36,850 --> 00:14:35,060
skepticism evaporated we're like he

339
00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:36,860
knows we're here this is amazing how

340
00:14:40,210 --> 00:14:38,450
could why is he walking here this guy's

341
00:14:45,010 --> 00:14:40,220
incredible we were about to buy tickets

342
00:14:46,210 --> 00:14:45,020
to his to his show and then of course he

343
00:14:48,970 --> 00:14:46,220
walked straight past is having no idea

344
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:48,980
they were there and then we we hijacked

345
00:14:53,140 --> 00:14:50,570
and we kind of felt a bit sorry for him

346
00:14:56,110 --> 00:14:53,150
actually because we heard later on from

347
00:14:57,310 --> 00:14:56,120
his publicist that you know doing all

348
00:14:58,900 --> 00:14:57,320
that bollocks that he does about

349
00:15:02,079 --> 00:14:58,910
pretending dogs dead people he actually

350
00:15:04,390 --> 00:15:02,089
attracts quite a lot of nutters and so

351
00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:04,400
when we ran up to him and started

352
00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:06,890
behaving in a bizarre manner I think he

353
00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:09,890
was slightly afraid that we might make

354
00:15:13,420 --> 00:15:10,130
him

355
00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:13,430
crossover so to speak and so when he

356
00:15:17,740 --> 00:15:15,650
found out that we were just mean

357
00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:17,750
rationalist comedians I think he was a

358
00:15:28,150 --> 00:15:26,570
bit relieved it's another long list of

359
00:15:29,500 --> 00:15:28,160
problems on us like jewels so let's get

360
00:15:32,380 --> 00:15:29,510
straight into it with problem number one

361
00:15:34,030 --> 00:15:32,390
Johnny yes now he's the American psychic

362
00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:34,040
guy that communicates with dead people

363
00:15:37,210 --> 00:15:35,690
who've crossed over and he's crossed

364
00:15:38,590 --> 00:15:37,220
over to Australia at the moment as he

365
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:38,600
has find out what stanza mannequin

366
00:15:42,490 --> 00:15:40,490
brockie thought of the LG song yeah look

367
00:15:44,260 --> 00:15:42,500
with a celebrity psychic like John

368
00:15:45,970 --> 00:15:44,270
Edward in town there's obviously a lot

369
00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:45,980
of excitement surrounding amongst

370
00:15:50,050 --> 00:15:48,290
gullible people of course but also Craig

371
00:15:51,670 --> 00:15:50,060
I've noticed the amount of paranormal

372
00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:51,680
activity in this country has skyrocketed

373
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:53,570
yes there's something strange in the

374
00:15:56,740 --> 00:15:55,010
neighborhood all right which really

375
00:16:02,920 --> 00:15:56,750
raises the question who are you gonna

376
00:16:04,450 --> 00:16:02,930
call John where the Ghostbusters we're

377
00:16:06,430 --> 00:16:04,460
gonna report of unusually high levels of

378
00:16:08,020 --> 00:16:06,440
ghost activity in this area are you the

379
00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:08,030
gatekeeper nobody gave you from the

380
00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:10,850
movie get oh my god you check your

381
00:16:14,260 --> 00:16:12,530
made out of noodles darting

382
00:16:16,030 --> 00:16:14,270
through the road there's definitely some

383
00:16:17,860 --> 00:16:16,040
unusually high levels of paranormal

384
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:17,870
in this area don't worry John

385
00:16:36,350 --> 00:16:34,100
is there any bit that you ever really

386
00:16:40,820 --> 00:16:36,360
wanted to do but just have not been able

387
00:16:43,750 --> 00:16:40,830
to get due to logistical reasons um look

388
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:43,760
we've been pretty lucky it's amazing how

389
00:16:50,150 --> 00:16:47,850
many long shots have come off over the

390
00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:50,160
years that the the biggest one of course

391
00:16:55,340 --> 00:16:53,490
being the APEC summit which was what we

392
00:16:56,750 --> 00:16:55,350
thought it was a million-to-one at best

393
00:16:58,880 --> 00:16:56,760
and that turned out to be a damn sight

394
00:17:02,630 --> 00:16:58,890
easier than we expected there have been

395
00:17:05,990 --> 00:17:02,640
plenty of days where you know you sit

396
00:17:08,750 --> 00:17:06,000
outside someone's house in the rain in

397
00:17:11,390 --> 00:17:08,760
some stupid costume from about six a.m.

398
00:17:13,220 --> 00:17:11,400
and then at about 11am you kind of

399
00:17:15,950 --> 00:17:13,230
realize that they probably aren't in the

400
00:17:18,950 --> 00:17:15,960
house I did that once with what was it

401
00:17:22,850 --> 00:17:18,960
the guys name is I think Jacob vice Minh

402
00:17:25,820 --> 00:17:22,860
who's the the guy who runs the advanced

403
00:17:29,660 --> 00:17:25,830
medical institute you know the the

404
00:17:32,270 --> 00:17:29,670
people that offer longer lasting sex and

405
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:32,280
you know those kind of he has an oral

406
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:34,970
solution for erectile dysfunction which

407
00:17:40,100 --> 00:17:37,410
I'm a little bit skeptical about to be

408
00:17:41,450 --> 00:17:40,110
honest so yeah so I said outside his

409
00:17:43,070 --> 00:17:41,460
place well I think he was away on

410
00:17:45,860 --> 00:17:43,080
holiday somewhere for for the best part

411
00:17:48,410 --> 00:17:45,870
of half a day that's an occupational

412
00:17:50,330 --> 00:17:48,420
hazard yeah and people ever written in

413
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:50,340
and suggested right you've done John

414
00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:53,730
Edward next Sylvia Browne or this person

415
00:17:56,660 --> 00:17:55,170
and yeah look we get lots of suggestions

416
00:17:59,420 --> 00:17:56,670
we were a little bit burnt by them in

417
00:18:00,680 --> 00:17:59,430
fact early on somebody suggested a

418
00:18:03,170 --> 00:18:00,690
sketch to us which we thought was a good

419
00:18:06,140 --> 00:18:03,180
idea we wrote it up and then found out

420
00:18:08,690 --> 00:18:06,150
that whether knowingly or not the person

421
00:18:10,130 --> 00:18:08,700
who'd suggested a sketch to us which

422
00:18:13,250 --> 00:18:10,140
they'd actually seen all the simpsons

423
00:18:15,490 --> 00:18:13,260
earlier on so we were accused of

424
00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:15,500
plagiarism when in fact there are a

425
00:18:21,650 --> 00:18:18,450
crime was a slightly lesser form of lack

426
00:18:25,430 --> 00:18:21,660
of originality so we do try and come up

427
00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:25,440
with most of the stuff ourselves not

428
00:18:29,530 --> 00:18:26,850
necessarily because it's better just cuz

429
00:18:31,490 --> 00:18:29,540
we're you know rabid egomaniacs

430
00:18:32,570 --> 00:18:31,500
incapable of collaborating with anyone

431
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:32,580
other than the people that we happen to

432
00:18:36,830 --> 00:18:35,850
start working with a decade ago so but

433
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:36,840
but I suppose we do take some

434
00:18:42,110 --> 00:18:39,690
suggestions often with savn road tests

435
00:18:43,460 --> 00:18:42,120
that we used to do people would would

436
00:18:46,250 --> 00:18:43,470
see the

437
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:46,260
ads on TV that they thought were well

438
00:18:49,970 --> 00:18:47,850
primed for a road test and that was

439
00:18:52,549 --> 00:18:49,980
quite useful because obviously we didn't

440
00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:52,559
watch that may ads because we were

441
00:18:56,149 --> 00:18:54,450
working so high so yeah so we did take

442
00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:56,159
suggestion what plans have you got for

443
00:18:59,600 --> 00:18:57,450
the rest of the year now that you've

444
00:19:01,340 --> 00:18:59,610
done the global atheist conference would

445
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:01,350
you be interested in the amazing meeting

446
00:19:06,980 --> 00:19:05,010
Australia well when's that on that will

447
00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:06,990
be on in November and that should have

448
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:08,850
James Randi and a variety of other

449
00:19:13,340 --> 00:19:11,010
skeptical because attending oh well look

450
00:19:15,770 --> 00:19:13,350
at that that sounds awesome one

451
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:15,780
potential complication around that time

452
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:18,210
which is in the hands of the gods or at

453
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:21,210
least the Prime Minister is the

454
00:19:26,390 --> 00:19:22,890
possibility of a federal election around

455
00:19:29,180 --> 00:19:26,400
that time we we haven't kind of got

456
00:19:31,850 --> 00:19:29,190
anything teed up yet but we're quite

457
00:19:34,399 --> 00:19:31,860
interested in getting back to what I

458
00:19:36,049 --> 00:19:34,409
suppose was where the chaser on

459
00:19:39,260 --> 00:19:36,059
television started which was covering

460
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:39,270
federal election campaigns and the

461
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:40,890
prospect of a campaign between Kevin

462
00:19:45,710 --> 00:19:44,010
Rudd and Tony Abbott seems well it

463
00:19:46,940 --> 00:19:45,720
practically satirizes itself but we

464
00:19:49,789 --> 00:19:46,950
figure we might give it a bit of a nudge

465
00:19:52,279 --> 00:19:49,799
along at some point so um but yeah

466
00:19:54,500 --> 00:19:52,289
amazing in November sounds sounds good

467
00:19:56,149 --> 00:19:54,510
if not we're looking forward after what

468
00:19:58,250 --> 00:19:56,159
Richard Dawkins said to maybe some sort

469
00:20:01,159 --> 00:19:58,260
of intergalactic atheist convention

470
00:20:03,110 --> 00:20:01,169
sometime soon which will be more than

471
00:20:05,270 --> 00:20:03,120
more than happily willing to make

472
00:20:08,029 --> 00:20:05,280
ourselves available for great okay well

473
00:20:09,980 --> 00:20:08,039
look I'll have a look and we enjoyed it

474
00:20:12,409 --> 00:20:09,990
are you gonna do another a theist

475
00:20:14,390 --> 00:20:12,419
convention I sincerely hope so um i

476
00:20:16,460 --> 00:20:14,400
don't know if i'll get to be the emcee

477
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:16,470
again because i imagine if it gets even

478
00:20:21,710 --> 00:20:18,570
bigger and better and huger and wider

479
00:20:23,510 --> 00:20:21,720
and border for 2012 they might choose

480
00:20:25,970 --> 00:20:23,520
somebody else but i'd love to be able to

481
00:20:27,860 --> 00:20:25,980
do more research that I'm doing um by

482
00:20:30,380 --> 00:20:27,870
the time it comes around off maybe I'll

483
00:20:32,659 --> 00:20:30,390
be doing my PhD on paranormal beliefs

484
00:20:34,100 --> 00:20:32,669
Sonia yeah well look I mean yeah I mean

485
00:20:35,659 --> 00:20:34,110
nothing you guys did a great job and if

486
00:20:37,130 --> 00:20:35,669
you if you've been involved in starting

487
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:37,140
it you should hang onto that podium as

488
00:20:41,870 --> 00:20:39,570
long as you can erect one of the things

489
00:20:44,029 --> 00:20:41,880
I did think yeah like if it's if it's

490
00:20:46,370 --> 00:20:44,039
done another time I think even if it's

491
00:20:48,110 --> 00:20:46,380
from a marketing perspective that you

492
00:20:50,930 --> 00:20:48,120
could enhance the program a little bit

493
00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:50,940
by kind of engaging the other side of

494
00:20:54,830 --> 00:20:53,130
the brain a bit more I don't know if

495
00:20:56,190 --> 00:20:54,840
that brain yeah left and right side

496
00:20:57,870 --> 00:20:56,200
stuff I have a vague

497
00:20:59,549 --> 00:20:57,880
collection that's that's not as clear as

498
00:21:02,100 --> 00:20:59,559
people say but but you know what I mean

499
00:21:04,710 --> 00:21:02,110
kind of I'm sure we agree that I mean it

500
00:21:07,169 --> 00:21:04,720
is just true that not believing in God

501
00:21:11,220 --> 00:21:07,179
doesn't prevent you from any of the kind

502
00:21:13,409 --> 00:21:11,230
of wonder in the in both the human world

503
00:21:15,750 --> 00:21:13,419
or appreciation of the arts or any of

504
00:21:21,539 --> 00:21:15,760
that sort of stuff I reckon hearing from

505
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:21,549
kind of Beast full artistic atheists

506
00:21:27,870 --> 00:21:24,970
would be you know a nice way of kind of

507
00:21:29,850 --> 00:21:27,880
enriching the picture of atheism you

508
00:21:31,889 --> 00:21:29,860
know some future con convention as well

509
00:21:33,930 --> 00:21:31,899
this is something that we try to do all

510
00:21:36,029 --> 00:21:33,940
the time with our podcast but I be very

511
00:21:38,759 --> 00:21:36,039
kind of I mean I don't know whether say

512
00:21:40,500 --> 00:21:38,769
someone like tim winton or yeah um you

513
00:21:41,730 --> 00:21:40,510
know I know Liz Murray's religious but

514
00:21:47,220 --> 00:21:41,740
that but I bet you there would be very

515
00:21:51,570 --> 00:21:47,230
kind of you know really arty types who

516
00:21:54,299 --> 00:21:51,580
are also completely atheistic and to

517
00:21:56,460 --> 00:21:54,309
mention 13 yeah yeah exactly yeah yeah I

518
00:21:59,460 --> 00:21:56,470
beat the christus sulcus is a day kids

519
00:22:00,779 --> 00:21:59,470
hmm and you know some of that getting

520
00:22:03,539 --> 00:22:00,789
some of those bonds along would probably

521
00:22:04,860 --> 00:22:03,549
be a good thing as well but then I look

522
00:22:06,690 --> 00:22:04,870
at congratulations on it must have been

523
00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:06,700
a massive thing to have to pull off so

524
00:22:11,789 --> 00:22:09,370
yeah it was great yeah really good crew

525
00:22:14,430 --> 00:22:11,799
the backstage crew was so incredibly on

526
00:22:16,139 --> 00:22:14,440
on the ball the whole time and yeah it's

527
00:22:18,629 --> 00:22:16,149
just wanna thank you very much Julia

528
00:22:23,580 --> 00:22:18,639
it's a pleasure Carla you can check out

529
00:22:36,060 --> 00:22:23,590
the official chaser website at WWDC com

530
00:22:40,539 --> 00:22:38,200
examining the truth in exposing the

531
00:22:42,549 --> 00:22:40,549
frauds that psychics co uk is the

532
00:22:44,649 --> 00:22:42,559
website that critically examines mediums

533
00:22:46,479 --> 00:22:44,659
clairvoyants and psychics follow the

534
00:22:48,580 --> 00:22:46,489
controversies news and discussions in

535
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:48,590
the lively forum community and now you

536
00:22:51,759 --> 00:22:50,090
can download your weekly fix of

537
00:22:54,129 --> 00:22:51,769
righteous indignation the official

538
00:22:55,389 --> 00:22:54,139
podcast of bad psychics khodet UK that

539
00:22:58,509 --> 00:22:55,399
talks hard and critically about

540
00:23:00,279 --> 00:22:58,519
paranormal bad psychics doctor at UK the

541
00:23:12,430 --> 00:23:00,289
UK's largest and most respected

542
00:23:15,219 --> 00:23:12,440
skeptical site looking at psychics now

543
00:23:19,710 --> 00:23:15,229
it's time for dr. Reiter reports with

544
00:23:25,750 --> 00:23:22,180
hello listeners and welcome to dr.

545
00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:25,760
retching reports this week I talked to

546
00:23:31,390 --> 00:23:28,130
mark Carter who runs an eco-tourism

547
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:31,400
company in the Northern Territory mark

548
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:33,410
got in touch with us last week after we

549
00:23:37,660 --> 00:23:35,090
discussed the larger man who fish

550
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:37,670
falling from the sky story in the think

551
00:23:43,420 --> 00:23:41,090
tank here I talked to mark about this

552
00:23:45,700 --> 00:23:43,430
story and also some of the other unique

553
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:45,710
wildlife that survives in the extreme

554
00:23:50,650 --> 00:23:47,890
conditions of the Northern Territory

555
00:23:52,810 --> 00:23:50,660
mark also tells us about the local

556
00:23:55,470 --> 00:23:52,820
newspaper that has a reputation for

557
00:23:58,330 --> 00:23:55,480
reporting some pretty credulous stories

558
00:24:01,030 --> 00:23:58,340
so hello mark and welcome to the skeptic

559
00:24:04,330 --> 00:24:01,040
zone thanks for joining us today I there

560
00:24:06,490 --> 00:24:04,340
right now mark you sent an email to us

561
00:24:10,150 --> 00:24:06,500
last week because you live in an area

562
00:24:12,340 --> 00:24:10,160
near the larger Marnie fish raining from

563
00:24:14,590 --> 00:24:12,350
the sky and you know something about

564
00:24:18,220 --> 00:24:14,600
this story because you run an

565
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:18,230
eco-tourism company in Alice Springs now

566
00:24:21,550 --> 00:24:19,490
can you tell us a little bit about

567
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:21,560
larger man who it's a very isolated

568
00:24:26,830 --> 00:24:24,410
remote community isn't it yeah that's

569
00:24:28,630 --> 00:24:26,840
right it's hundreds of kilometers really

570
00:24:30,580 --> 00:24:28,640
from anywhere else you have to spend

571
00:24:33,370 --> 00:24:30,590
several hours in a four-wheel drive

572
00:24:36,460 --> 00:24:33,380
vehicle and dirt roads and even to get

573
00:24:40,270 --> 00:24:36,470
close to the place it really is a very

574
00:24:41,740 --> 00:24:40,280
very remote place to go it's quite an

575
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:41,750
impoverished community it's an

576
00:24:46,870 --> 00:24:44,690
Aboriginal community and yeah it's quite

577
00:24:49,270 --> 00:24:46,880
it's quite hard place to live it's a

578
00:24:50,650 --> 00:24:49,280
very beautiful place and the landscape

579
00:24:53,650 --> 00:24:50,660
around there is really really

580
00:24:55,060 --> 00:24:53,660
sensational very beautiful but yeah

581
00:24:56,380 --> 00:24:55,070
people out there they don't have a lot

582
00:24:59,440 --> 00:24:56,390
of money and there's a lot of

583
00:25:01,150 --> 00:24:59,450
traditional people out there too so they

584
00:25:03,220 --> 00:25:01,160
don't have a lot of access to technology

585
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:03,230
in the same way that maybe people in

586
00:25:07,150 --> 00:25:05,090
cities might expect so that's why

587
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:07,160
there's that distracts the occasional

588
00:25:10,930 --> 00:25:09,050
photograph of the alleged fish raining

589
00:25:13,090 --> 00:25:10,940
from the sky there's no good quality

590
00:25:15,340 --> 00:25:13,100
video or anything like that so to get

591
00:25:18,220 --> 00:25:15,350
there from say Darwin you'd have to

592
00:25:21,100 --> 00:25:18,230
drive for about 13 hours and about 900

593
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:21,110
kilometres and from Adelaide it's around

594
00:25:24,670 --> 00:25:23,090
two and a half thousand kilometers which

595
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:24,680
would take longer than a day so we're

596
00:25:29,410 --> 00:25:27,170
really talking about the real australian

597
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:29,420
outback here aren't we yeah that's right

598
00:25:33,170 --> 00:25:31,290
it's real so hello

599
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:33,180
road trip getting out there I have

600
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:35,010
friends who work out there and sometimes

601
00:25:39,890 --> 00:25:37,650
takes them several days they do they

602
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:39,900
make a big big song and dance about it

603
00:25:43,970 --> 00:25:42,690
but I think they love it yeah so you you

604
00:25:46,220 --> 00:25:43,980
know if they've been about the wildlife

605
00:25:48,290 --> 00:25:46,230
in there in the area around Alice

606
00:25:50,810 --> 00:25:48,300
Springs and larger man who in particular

607
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:50,820
you know something about the sort of the

608
00:25:55,970 --> 00:25:53,250
fish species and also the frogs can you

609
00:25:59,870 --> 00:25:55,980
tell us about how they can live in such

610
00:26:02,540 --> 00:25:59,880
extreme conditions yeah the Como here is

611
00:26:04,790 --> 00:26:02,550
pretty extreme and in winter it can get

612
00:26:07,220 --> 00:26:04,800
down to minus five or below and in

613
00:26:09,500 --> 00:26:07,230
summer the temperatures can soar up into

614
00:26:11,450 --> 00:26:09,510
the mid 40s and the the ground

615
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:11,460
temperature can actually get up to 60

616
00:26:16,460 --> 00:26:14,490
degrees so it's a very hostile place for

617
00:26:18,290 --> 00:26:16,470
creatures to live any creatures never

618
00:26:20,300 --> 00:26:18,300
mind that creatures that need water like

619
00:26:21,770 --> 00:26:20,310
fish and frogs so they've had to come up

620
00:26:24,500 --> 00:26:21,780
with some pretty severe and their

621
00:26:26,030 --> 00:26:24,510
adaptations to life right here the way

622
00:26:28,370 --> 00:26:26,040
that the frogs have adapted is by

623
00:26:30,290 --> 00:26:28,380
burying themselves through the dry times

624
00:26:31,430 --> 00:26:30,300
and estimating that kind of means that

625
00:26:33,830 --> 00:26:31,440
they're going to suspended animation

626
00:26:36,230 --> 00:26:33,840
underground and they wait for the range

627
00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:36,240
to come again as soon as it rains they

628
00:26:39,740 --> 00:26:38,130
dig their way up to the surface and they

629
00:26:42,260 --> 00:26:39,750
go into a frenzy of feeding and breeding

630
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:42,270
and we're actually in the middle of one

631
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:43,770
of those events right now here in our

632
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:45,090
Springs we had a lot of rain recently

633
00:26:49,900 --> 00:26:47,970
and it's very spectacular and these

634
00:26:52,430 --> 00:26:49,910
frogs really go hell for leather at it

635
00:26:53,750 --> 00:26:52,440
but for the rest of the year since it

636
00:26:55,070 --> 00:26:53,760
starts to dry up they're going to bury

637
00:26:57,380 --> 00:26:55,080
themselves and we're not going to see

638
00:26:58,820 --> 00:26:57,390
them again until it rains next and the

639
00:27:00,410 --> 00:26:58,830
fish have a different strategy though

640
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:00,420
they can't survive despite what you

641
00:27:04,220 --> 00:27:02,250
might read in a few places or hear

642
00:27:07,180 --> 00:27:04,230
bandied around they cannot survive on

643
00:27:09,890 --> 00:27:07,190
the ground and they retreat back to

644
00:27:11,870 --> 00:27:09,900
permanent water holes in water courses

645
00:27:14,540 --> 00:27:11,880
and that's where they will survive the

646
00:27:17,210 --> 00:27:14,550
drought hopefully there's only a few

647
00:27:19,610 --> 00:27:17,220
species generally in each water hole and

648
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:19,620
some of them some of these water holes

649
00:27:23,810 --> 00:27:21,210
are actually are really hot spots for

650
00:27:26,120 --> 00:27:23,820
evolution and some of the fish species

651
00:27:27,470 --> 00:27:26,130
can be very confined to one or two river

652
00:27:28,940 --> 00:27:27,480
systems you might find them anywhere

653
00:27:30,500 --> 00:27:28,950
else in the world they're quite amazing

654
00:27:32,690 --> 00:27:30,510
little things yeah and one of those

655
00:27:35,780 --> 00:27:32,700
species is the Fink goby is that right

656
00:27:38,270 --> 00:27:35,790
that's specific to one type of one river

657
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:38,280
system is that correct mark yeah that's

658
00:27:42,590 --> 00:27:40,650
right it's only fine from the Fink right

659
00:27:44,120 --> 00:27:42,600
now the Fink is actually flowing in

660
00:27:44,630 --> 00:27:44,130
sections there's been so much water

661
00:27:45,950 --> 00:27:44,640
around

662
00:27:48,170 --> 00:27:45,960
landscape so the faint go bees are

663
00:27:50,120 --> 00:27:48,180
having a rare old time there there there

664
00:27:52,070 --> 00:27:50,130
to be fine pretty much up and down the

665
00:27:54,140 --> 00:27:52,080
length of the Finke River but those

666
00:27:56,120 --> 00:27:54,150
water holes are starting to dry out the

667
00:27:58,580 --> 00:27:56,130
water is running out and stopping

668
00:28:00,200 --> 00:27:58,590
flowing now so those little pockets of

669
00:28:03,830 --> 00:28:00,210
fish they're going to get increasingly

670
00:28:06,230 --> 00:28:03,840
isolated and one by one they're going to

671
00:28:08,390 --> 00:28:06,240
dry out those fish are capable dealing

672
00:28:09,950 --> 00:28:08,400
with extreme salinity the the Finke

673
00:28:12,050 --> 00:28:09,960
River that they live in is quite salty

674
00:28:14,750 --> 00:28:12,060
anyway it's too salty really for you and

675
00:28:16,430 --> 00:28:14,760
I to drink but they can deal with very

676
00:28:18,380 --> 00:28:16,440
high levels salt and they can also deal

677
00:28:20,990 --> 00:28:18,390
with very high or very low temperatures

678
00:28:22,670 --> 00:28:21,000
they're incredible first very unassuming

679
00:28:26,690 --> 00:28:22,680
you you you wouldn't look at one and

680
00:28:28,670 --> 00:28:26,700
think wow I make sure a fish nutr but

681
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:28,680
they are incredible with creatures

682
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:31,170
they're really inspiring so can you give

683
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:33,570
our listeners are not that familiar with

684
00:28:38,990 --> 00:28:35,250
the extremes of the Australian outback

685
00:28:41,780 --> 00:28:39,000
when you get these heavy rains I mean

686
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:41,790
most of the time the desert is what gets

687
00:28:45,830 --> 00:28:44,010
a very small amount of rain compared to

688
00:28:48,170 --> 00:28:45,840
the amount of evaporation that occurs is

689
00:28:50,030 --> 00:28:48,180
that right yeah that's right we can have

690
00:28:52,430 --> 00:28:50,040
as little or well we can have as little

691
00:28:55,370 --> 00:28:52,440
as 20 centimeters of rainfall year or

692
00:28:57,500 --> 00:28:55,380
even less I think in 2009 we only had 15

693
00:28:59,720 --> 00:28:57,510
centimeters of rainfall in total and

694
00:29:01,970 --> 00:28:59,730
that gully came in dribs and drabs so

695
00:29:03,500 --> 00:29:01,980
the ground was looking very bare the

696
00:29:06,830 --> 00:29:03,510
world of the points were having a hard

697
00:29:08,780 --> 00:29:06,840
time and but then in other years you can

698
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:08,790
have incredible amounts of rain and

699
00:29:13,370 --> 00:29:11,130
we've actually had I think it's like 36

700
00:29:15,470 --> 00:29:13,380
centimeters of rain just in the last two

701
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:15,480
months here in our Springs and some

702
00:29:20,270 --> 00:29:17,850
areas have had even more than that but

703
00:29:23,570 --> 00:29:20,280
that can come in in massive dying pores

704
00:29:26,330 --> 00:29:23,580
and what happens is that the normally

705
00:29:28,550 --> 00:29:26,340
dry riverbeds very quickly fill up with

706
00:29:31,100 --> 00:29:28,560
water the soils here comes really store

707
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:31,110
much water and it just sheet floods off

708
00:29:35,390 --> 00:29:33,930
and very quickly the rivers start

709
00:29:38,780 --> 00:29:35,400
running again it's quite spectacular

710
00:29:42,500 --> 00:29:38,790
sight mmm so this isn't the first time

711
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:42,510
that fish raining from the sky has been

712
00:29:47,510 --> 00:29:45,330
reported in the Northern Territory you

713
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:47,520
have a newspaper that's a little bit

714
00:29:51,590 --> 00:29:50,010
credulous in reporting things like this

715
00:29:54,890 --> 00:29:51,600
can you tell us a little bit about the

716
00:29:57,110 --> 00:29:54,900
Northern Territory newspaper yes the NT

717
00:29:58,390 --> 00:29:57,120
news or as some of the locals call it

718
00:30:01,940 --> 00:29:58,400
the empty

719
00:30:04,430 --> 00:30:01,950
as a real reputation for no story is too

720
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:04,440
daft for them really and they also have

721
00:30:08,299 --> 00:30:06,330
a reputation for having a crocodile in

722
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:08,309
front of every edition or a woman in a

723
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:11,250
swimsuit uh-huh but ya know that they

724
00:30:16,010 --> 00:30:13,770
seem to be ramping up the number of kind

725
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:16,020
of supernatural stories or just silly

726
00:30:21,470 --> 00:30:19,290
stories for example the last edition has

727
00:30:23,210 --> 00:30:21,480
a story on the front about a local land

728
00:30:27,140 --> 00:30:23,220
manager who claims to be seeing lots of

729
00:30:28,970 --> 00:30:27,150
UFOs and yeah it's hard to tell whether

730
00:30:30,950 --> 00:30:28,980
the joking or not in the recovery Java

731
00:30:32,900 --> 00:30:30,960
but uh but front page is that really the

732
00:30:35,659 --> 00:30:32,910
most important thing going on the NT at

733
00:30:37,250 --> 00:30:35,669
the moment I really don't think so but

734
00:30:39,890 --> 00:30:37,260
yeah they covered this story of the

735
00:30:41,419 --> 00:30:39,900
raining fish and they made a big song

736
00:30:43,190 --> 00:30:41,429
and dance about it was very quickly

737
00:30:44,659 --> 00:30:43,200
syndicates to ride the world it's the

738
00:30:47,210 --> 00:30:44,669
stories popped up in all manner of

739
00:30:50,390 --> 00:30:47,220
places but there's been very little kind

740
00:30:53,150 --> 00:30:50,400
of informal kind of analysis really of

741
00:30:55,669 --> 00:30:53,160
the claims that have been made and yeah

742
00:30:57,289 --> 00:30:55,679
so that's how I came into this sort of

743
00:31:00,350 --> 00:30:57,299
skeptical community I suppose everyone

744
00:31:02,150 --> 00:31:00,360
read the story and thought what and so

745
00:31:04,190 --> 00:31:02,160
what's your opinion being that you are

746
00:31:06,020 --> 00:31:04,200
fairly familiar with the region and

747
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:06,030
you've heard of these stories before

748
00:31:09,470 --> 00:31:07,890
what what do you think actually happened

749
00:31:11,630 --> 00:31:09,480
mark yeah I think there's two

750
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:11,640
possibilities here one is that actually

751
00:31:19,730 --> 00:31:15,290
is possible that I rains that the rains

752
00:31:21,500 --> 00:31:19,740
caused some fish from a waterhole to be

753
00:31:24,140 --> 00:31:21,510
able to travel further than they

754
00:31:26,270 --> 00:31:24,150
normally would and the Sheep flooding

755
00:31:28,070 --> 00:31:26,280
that I talked about can wash fish into

756
00:31:30,380 --> 00:31:28,080
strange places and the fish themselves

757
00:31:32,030 --> 00:31:30,390
will actually really try and get

758
00:31:33,230 --> 00:31:32,040
themselves into strange places because

759
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:33,240
of course that's their best hope of

760
00:31:37,610 --> 00:31:35,010
surviving into the future as if they can

761
00:31:39,740 --> 00:31:37,620
get to other water holes and lay more

762
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:39,750
eggs then that's a really good strategy

763
00:31:44,810 --> 00:31:41,370
for them and so they aren't quite

764
00:31:48,830 --> 00:31:44,820
adventurous these little fish but having

765
00:31:50,510 --> 00:31:48,840
said that um they are not capable of

766
00:31:52,190 --> 00:31:50,520
these incredible feats of endurance that

767
00:31:54,830 --> 00:31:52,200
people were claimed that they are so

768
00:31:56,510 --> 00:31:54,840
that's one possibility for them getting

769
00:31:57,830 --> 00:31:56,520
there is being carried by floodwaters

770
00:32:00,020 --> 00:31:57,840
the other possibility and this is a

771
00:32:02,450 --> 00:32:00,030
probably a lot less likelihood to this

772
00:32:04,580 --> 00:32:02,460
but it isn't impossible is that they

773
00:32:06,890 --> 00:32:04,590
were picked up by a water spoke and

774
00:32:08,870 --> 00:32:06,900
carried a small distance before being

775
00:32:11,210 --> 00:32:08,880
dropped where they were fine

776
00:32:12,980 --> 00:32:11,220
and it doesn't we get small tornadoes

777
00:32:14,900 --> 00:32:12,990
dust devils there sometimes cold in

778
00:32:17,270 --> 00:32:14,910
other parts of the world and that which

779
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:17,280
will pick up dirt and debris and carry

780
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:19,050
it for a few hundred meters they're very

781
00:32:22,580 --> 00:32:20,730
very common if you spend time I wish

782
00:32:24,940 --> 00:32:22,590
you'll definitely see these and they

783
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:24,950
tend to occur around about clay pans or

784
00:32:29,300 --> 00:32:27,330
dry creek beds example the sort of

785
00:32:30,890 --> 00:32:29,310
places that when it rains these places

786
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:30,900
have water now is the sort of place that

787
00:32:35,810 --> 00:32:33,930
fish can turn up and I know the original

788
00:32:37,130 --> 00:32:35,820
fellow that I know here each told me

789
00:32:38,660 --> 00:32:37,140
that he's seen it with his own eyes and

790
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:38,670
there is something that you'll see if

791
00:32:43,130 --> 00:32:40,290
you spend a lot of time out Bush is

792
00:32:45,230 --> 00:32:43,140
these water spots picking up things from

793
00:32:47,990 --> 00:32:45,240
from water bodies and dumping them

794
00:32:49,610 --> 00:32:48,000
elsewhere and a very good friend of mine

795
00:32:50,900 --> 00:32:49,620
is actually seen it happen up in the top

796
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:50,910
leg where admitted there's a lot more

797
00:32:54,620 --> 00:32:52,890
water but she did see a waterspout pick

798
00:32:57,020 --> 00:32:54,630
up some water with some fish in it and

799
00:32:59,420 --> 00:32:57,030
drop it about a hundred meters away on

800
00:33:02,720 --> 00:32:59,430
land so it is possible that it happens

801
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:02,730
how likely it is I really wouldn't like

802
00:33:06,140 --> 00:33:04,530
to say and as no one actually saw it

803
00:33:07,970 --> 00:33:06,150
happen at larger money they just find

804
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:07,980
the fish in a strange place and jump to

805
00:33:13,070 --> 00:33:11,010
the conclusion of the war spy my money's

806
00:33:16,430 --> 00:33:13,080
on it just being adventurous fish that's

807
00:33:18,050 --> 00:33:16,440
right so it's possible that this there's

808
00:33:21,220 --> 00:33:18,060
worley well is that you refer to may

809
00:33:24,050 --> 00:33:21,230
have picked up fish that had become

810
00:33:25,700 --> 00:33:24,060
waterborne after these rains but in your

811
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:25,710
opinion do you think it's possible that

812
00:33:28,790 --> 00:33:27,090
a whirly well he could have traveled

813
00:33:30,850 --> 00:33:28,800
from the coast which is what nine

814
00:33:34,370 --> 00:33:30,860
hundred kilometers away is the closest

815
00:33:35,900 --> 00:33:34,380
ocean waters yeah that was mentioned in

816
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:35,910
some of the news articles about those

817
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:39,570
bonkers that possible and the other

818
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:41,370
thing that makes me just laugh at that

819
00:33:45,380 --> 00:33:43,530
is the the photographs of the fish that

820
00:33:47,030 --> 00:33:45,390
they have it's hard to say because the

821
00:33:48,980 --> 00:33:47,040
fish are upside down there dead in the

822
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:48,990
photos but they they pretty much look

823
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:50,850
like water hole fish they look like the

824
00:33:55,310 --> 00:33:52,650
kind of fish you'd be seeing in a water

825
00:33:56,810 --> 00:33:55,320
hole near larger money so there's no

826
00:33:59,720 --> 00:33:56,820
question of it being brought from the

827
00:34:03,230 --> 00:33:59,730
seaside or anything like that okay so

828
00:34:05,900 --> 00:34:03,240
mark you you run ecotourism trips to you

829
00:34:07,970 --> 00:34:05,910
in the outback so I are you going to be

830
00:34:11,300 --> 00:34:07,980
taking out some skeptics for maybe tam

831
00:34:12,710 --> 00:34:11,310
Australia in November 2010 absolutely I

832
00:34:14,149 --> 00:34:12,720
think anybody you want to see the real

833
00:34:15,770 --> 00:34:14,159
Australia you've got to come out to our

834
00:34:18,260 --> 00:34:15,780
Springs you've got to see the outback

835
00:34:20,060 --> 00:34:18,270
and yeah our company will gladly take

836
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:20,070
you out it's November so it's a bit hot

837
00:34:24,070 --> 00:34:22,370
for our tracking that we normally do

838
00:34:26,290 --> 00:34:24,080
but we do do a good range of

839
00:34:28,240 --> 00:34:26,300
bird-watching trips and if you've got a

840
00:34:30,010 --> 00:34:28,250
special interest than anything odd like

841
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:30,020
reptiles we've got some of the finest

842
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:31,850
reptiles on earth I hear it's really

843
00:34:36,610 --> 00:34:34,490
spectacular giant lizards and that kind

844
00:34:39,010 --> 00:34:36,620
of thing then yeah I think you have a

845
00:34:40,300 --> 00:34:39,020
lot of fun so come on skeptics come out

846
00:34:42,340 --> 00:34:40,310
to the over now what's the name of your

847
00:34:46,690 --> 00:34:42,350
company mark we're called Trek claro

848
00:34:48,250 --> 00:34:46,700
Pinta and if you search for Lara Pinta

849
00:34:50,470 --> 00:34:48,260
trail that's the name of the trail that

850
00:34:54,250 --> 00:34:50,480
we work we work on most of the year then

851
00:34:57,310 --> 00:34:54,260
you'll find us on a large search engine

852
00:34:59,380 --> 00:34:57,320
near you well if you can promise US Fish

853
00:35:01,090 --> 00:34:59,390
raining from the sky and UFOs and I'm

854
00:35:03,210 --> 00:35:01,100
sure lots of skeptics will be keen to

855
00:35:05,350 --> 00:35:03,220
come out and meet you in November so

856
00:35:07,510 --> 00:35:05,360
thanks for taking the time to talk to us

857
00:35:09,190 --> 00:35:07,520
today mark no worries i'll give the

858
00:35:22,710 --> 00:35:09,200
empty user ring and see what we can

859
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:24,820
want to know how to live skeptically and

860
00:35:29,770 --> 00:35:27,530
still have friends will soda why join me

861
00:35:31,390 --> 00:35:29,780
for actually speaking a new podcast that

862
00:35:33,730 --> 00:35:31,400
explores the human side of skepticism

863
00:35:35,590 --> 00:35:33,740
will set the science side and discuss

864
00:35:38,020 --> 00:35:35,600
familiar skeptical topics from an inner

865
00:35:39,460 --> 00:35:38,030
personal perspective along the way will

866
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:39,470
highlight specific social and

867
00:35:43,510 --> 00:35:41,090
communication skills need it to promote

868
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:43,520
critical thinking scientific facts are

869
00:35:46,660 --> 00:35:45,410
only part of the equation let's take an

870
00:35:49,030 --> 00:35:46,670
extra step and learn how to share that

871
00:35:51,130 --> 00:35:49,040
knowledge effectively actually speaking

872
00:35:53,410 --> 00:35:51,140
a podcast that explores the human side

873
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:53,420
of skepticism critical thinking and the

874
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:54,890
skills we need to make it through the

875
00:36:06,760 --> 00:35:57,170
day visit actually speaking calm to

876
00:36:15,190 --> 00:36:06,770
learn more let's all take this with a

877
00:36:17,050 --> 00:36:15,200
grain of salt he's around ticket hello

878
00:36:19,870 --> 00:36:17,060
this is aaron sega taking life with a

879
00:36:22,230 --> 00:36:19,880
grain of salt the topic of my talk today

880
00:36:24,700 --> 00:36:22,240
would usually be tackled by dr. ecchi

881
00:36:26,290 --> 00:36:24,710
unfortunately dr. HC shows no interest

882
00:36:28,180 --> 00:36:26,300
in this specific type of scientific

883
00:36:30,430 --> 00:36:28,190
claim perhaps the fact that she's a

884
00:36:32,350 --> 00:36:30,440
woman has something to do with this i'm

885
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:32,360
referring to claims about treating male

886
00:36:36,460 --> 00:36:34,970
pattern balding in particular i will

887
00:36:38,500 --> 00:36:36,470
investigate the claims of one company

888
00:36:40,240 --> 00:36:38,510
piling such treatments which has been

889
00:36:43,270 --> 00:36:40,250
running TV ads in australia over the

890
00:36:44,890 --> 00:36:43,280
past year before i discuss treatments it

891
00:36:47,110 --> 00:36:44,900
is worth giving some facts regarding

892
00:36:50,380 --> 00:36:47,120
hair loss in general and hereditary hair

893
00:36:53,290 --> 00:36:50,390
loss in particular the human skin male

894
00:36:55,030 --> 00:36:53,300
and female is covered with hair the only

895
00:36:57,610 --> 00:36:55,040
parts of the body that do not have here

896
00:37:00,190 --> 00:36:57,620
are the feet and palms the lips in parts

897
00:37:01,780 --> 00:37:00,200
of the genitalia Harry's produced in

898
00:37:04,060 --> 00:37:01,790
follicles that produce hair for as long

899
00:37:06,220 --> 00:37:04,070
as they're alive which very often is as

900
00:37:08,050 --> 00:37:06,230
long as the person lives but they do so

901
00:37:10,690 --> 00:37:08,060
in bursts stopping her production from

902
00:37:12,730 --> 00:37:10,700
time to time when a follicle stops

903
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:12,740
producing hair for a while the hair from

904
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:15,290
that follicle falls out this is called

905
00:37:19,870 --> 00:37:17,810
the cottage enphase for most of the rest

906
00:37:21,940 --> 00:37:19,880
of the time the hair follicle is in the

907
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:21,950
anagen phase during which the hair

908
00:37:26,230 --> 00:37:24,410
actively grows the length of the anagen

909
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:26,240
phase determines the maximum length of

910
00:37:30,450 --> 00:37:28,610
the hair possible from a follicle the

911
00:37:33,150 --> 00:37:30,460
anagen phase for a typical scout

912
00:37:34,890 --> 00:37:33,160
is measured in years whereas for shorter

913
00:37:37,260 --> 00:37:34,900
hair such as eyelashes and the hair on

914
00:37:39,570 --> 00:37:37,270
arms and legs it is measured in days and

915
00:37:41,460 --> 00:37:39,580
weeks there are multiple types of

916
00:37:43,670 --> 00:37:41,470
follicles producing hair of varying

917
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:43,680
thicknesses colors and other properties

918
00:37:48,599 --> 00:37:46,210
for most humans the majority of their

919
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:48,609
hair is short and thin and often light

920
00:37:53,010 --> 00:37:51,010
colored or semi-translucent making it

921
00:37:55,589 --> 00:37:53,020
appear as if we are naked of here hence

922
00:37:57,990 --> 00:37:55,599
the term naked ape but in fact humans

923
00:38:00,480 --> 00:37:58,000
have no less hair than other Apes hair

924
00:38:02,190 --> 00:38:00,490
production however is not fixed it is

925
00:38:04,589 --> 00:38:02,200
heavily affected by hormonal changes

926
00:38:07,230 --> 00:38:04,599
chemical changes in our bodies and other

927
00:38:09,060 --> 00:38:07,240
environmental factors one example of

928
00:38:11,190 --> 00:38:09,070
this we all know is that the same

929
00:38:13,290 --> 00:38:11,200
follicle that produced short fine hair

930
00:38:16,620 --> 00:38:13,300
on the face of a boy starts producing

931
00:38:18,270 --> 00:38:16,630
long coarse hair once puberty hits body

932
00:38:20,250 --> 00:38:18,280
hair also varies widely between ethnic

933
00:38:21,870 --> 00:38:20,260
groups and the attitude to body hair

934
00:38:23,970 --> 00:38:21,880
varies between cultures and even

935
00:38:25,349 --> 00:38:23,980
subcultures the only hair about which

936
00:38:27,660 --> 00:38:25,359
there seems to be widespread agreement

937
00:38:30,450 --> 00:38:27,670
that it is desirable is the hair on our

938
00:38:32,700 --> 00:38:30,460
heads both males and females in most

939
00:38:34,980 --> 00:38:32,710
cultures use the hair on their heads for

940
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:34,990
decoration engaging in elaborate and

941
00:38:39,690 --> 00:38:37,570
sometimes costly processes of sculpting

942
00:38:42,180 --> 00:38:39,700
it to see trends fashions and perceive

943
00:38:43,710 --> 00:38:42,190
Beauty the snag is that some here

944
00:38:45,770 --> 00:38:43,720
especially that on the head often

945
00:38:48,210 --> 00:38:45,780
doesn't last as long as we wanted to

946
00:38:50,460 --> 00:38:48,220
that in other parts of the body often

947
00:38:52,109 --> 00:38:50,470
lasts longer than we wanted to is not

948
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:52,119
considered to be any kind of consolation

949
00:38:56,849 --> 00:38:54,970
by most people permanent hair loss is

950
00:38:58,770 --> 00:38:56,859
usually the result of follicle death

951
00:39:01,410 --> 00:38:58,780
which could be caused by a variety of

952
00:39:03,870 --> 00:39:01,420
reasons many hair follicles dies the

953
00:39:06,150 --> 00:39:03,880
body ages and elderly people both male

954
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:06,160
and female tend to have less hair both

955
00:39:10,530 --> 00:39:08,650
on their heads and all their bodies in

956
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:10,540
order to combat hair loss the reasons

957
00:39:14,700 --> 00:39:11,890
for the hair loss need to be detected

958
00:39:16,620 --> 00:39:14,710
and understood simply strengthening the

959
00:39:18,570 --> 00:39:16,630
follicles if that even means anything is

960
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:18,580
unlikely to be effective as such

961
00:39:21,839 --> 00:39:20,410
generalist approach is unlikely to

962
00:39:24,630 --> 00:39:21,849
protect the follicles against the

963
00:39:26,460 --> 00:39:24,640
specific cause of failure or death the

964
00:39:28,349 --> 00:39:26,470
most common type of boldness that is not

965
00:39:30,570 --> 00:39:28,359
comorbid with some other syndrome is

966
00:39:32,250 --> 00:39:30,580
hereditary hair loss which is also

967
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:32,260
commonly known as male pattern balding

968
00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:34,930
and female pattern balding to the best

969
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:36,250
of current scientific knowledge

970
00:39:40,099 --> 00:39:38,290
hereditary hair loss occurs due to the

971
00:39:44,100 --> 00:39:40,109
accumulation in the top of the scalp of

972
00:39:46,590 --> 00:39:44,110
dihydrotestosterone also known as DHT

973
00:39:48,690 --> 00:39:46,600
DHT causes follicles to shrink until

974
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:48,700
they stop producing hair it is a

975
00:39:52,410 --> 00:39:50,650
metabolite of testosterone which

976
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:52,420
explains why hereditary hair loss is

977
00:39:57,150 --> 00:39:54,850
more pronounced in men if it drug to

978
00:39:59,280 --> 00:39:57,160
treat this type of hair loss is found it

979
00:40:00,750 --> 00:39:59,290
would be very big business indeed as it

980
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:00,760
would generally be expected to be taken

981
00:40:05,250 --> 00:40:02,410
for as long as the patient cares to keep

982
00:40:07,020 --> 00:40:05,260
their hair a permanent cure is unlikely

983
00:40:09,720 --> 00:40:07,030
if our understanding of the causes of

984
00:40:11,550 --> 00:40:09,730
hereditary hair loss is correct despite

985
00:40:13,020 --> 00:40:11,560
the huge incentive to date only two

986
00:40:16,170 --> 00:40:13,030
drugs have been approved for treatment

987
00:40:18,270 --> 00:40:16,180
of our editorial loss minoxidil marketed

988
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:18,280
under the brand name regain is approved

989
00:40:22,710 --> 00:40:20,490
for both men and women finasteride

990
00:40:26,300 --> 00:40:22,720
marketed under the brand name propecia

991
00:40:28,620 --> 00:40:26,310
or propecia is approved for men only

992
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:28,630
minoxidil is applied topically to the

993
00:40:32,310 --> 00:40:30,490
scalp and it is believed that it works

994
00:40:34,590 --> 00:40:32,320
by improving blood flow to the follicles

995
00:40:37,140 --> 00:40:34,600
and therefore delaying follicle death in

996
00:40:38,970 --> 00:40:37,150
promoting hair growth finasteride is

997
00:40:42,540 --> 00:40:38,980
taken orally and combats the

998
00:40:44,550 --> 00:40:42,550
accumulation of DHT in this cup so far

999
00:40:47,490 --> 00:40:44,560
we've discussed the science now let's

1000
00:40:49,530 --> 00:40:47,500
talk business ads promoting treatments

1001
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:49,540
for hereditary hair loss are very common

1002
00:40:54,060 --> 00:40:51,850
also common are the claims that they are

1003
00:40:56,850 --> 00:40:54,070
clinically proven or scientifically

1004
00:40:58,830 --> 00:40:56,860
tested or other such words often used to

1005
00:41:01,800 --> 00:40:58,840
suggest that some treatment modality has

1006
00:41:03,630 --> 00:41:01,810
passed proper clinical trials very often

1007
00:41:06,210 --> 00:41:03,640
they promote a combination of chemicals

1008
00:41:08,550 --> 00:41:06,220
in some sort of laser or other light

1009
00:41:10,470 --> 00:41:08,560
treatment I decided to dig a little

1010
00:41:14,310 --> 00:41:10,480
deeper regarding the claims of one such

1011
00:41:16,110 --> 00:41:14,320
company named Li mo le IM o which sells

1012
00:41:18,090 --> 00:41:16,120
an alleged treatment comprising some

1013
00:41:20,550 --> 00:41:18,100
chemicals and a laser instrument to be

1014
00:41:22,830 --> 00:41:20,560
used on the scalp Lima has been

1015
00:41:25,530 --> 00:41:22,840
advertising quite aggressively on TV at

1016
00:41:27,990 --> 00:41:25,540
what must be very high costs that they

1017
00:41:29,730 --> 00:41:28,000
can afford this is no surprise while

1018
00:41:31,410 --> 00:41:29,740
minoxidil and finasteride cost about

1019
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:31,420
sixty dollars per month and are

1020
00:41:35,610 --> 00:41:33,010
partially covered by some health funds

1021
00:41:39,750 --> 00:41:35,620
the limo laser and enough chemicals for

1022
00:41:42,090 --> 00:41:39,760
six weeks cost 1310 dollars a 12 month

1023
00:41:45,900 --> 00:41:42,100
supply package the cheapest option for

1024
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:45,910
continual use costs 1014 dollars so the

1025
00:41:50,250 --> 00:41:48,010
minimum spend on li mo over the first 12

1026
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:50,260
months is more than three times the spin

1027
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:53,890
on minoxidil or finasteride red flags

1028
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:56,050
around lemur waving as if a violent

1029
00:41:58,980 --> 00:41:57,010
storm was approaching

1030
00:42:00,750 --> 00:41:58,990
as I knew there were only two approved

1031
00:42:03,090 --> 00:42:00,760
treatments for hair loss and they did

1032
00:42:05,250 --> 00:42:03,100
not include lasers but I wanted to know

1033
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:05,260
more before I made up my mind so I

1034
00:42:08,700 --> 00:42:06,970
called their toll free number and spoke

1035
00:42:11,340 --> 00:42:08,710
to a very friendly sales representative

1036
00:42:13,290 --> 00:42:11,350
she explained how limo is to be used and

1037
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:13,300
that my request promised to send me

1038
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:15,130
information about how it worked in the

1039
00:42:19,230 --> 00:42:17,170
scientific evidence that he did I

1040
00:42:21,780 --> 00:42:19,240
received an email message containing a

1041
00:42:23,070 --> 00:42:21,790
lot of information it started with an

1042
00:42:24,990 --> 00:42:23,080
accurate description of the cause of

1043
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:25,000
hereditary Hallows which I found very

1044
00:42:30,030 --> 00:42:27,850
encouraging the next paragraph said the

1045
00:42:31,980 --> 00:42:30,040
following the limo system is extremely

1046
00:42:34,590 --> 00:42:31,990
effective because he targets the cause

1047
00:42:37,050 --> 00:42:34,600
of hair loss which is DHT and reverses

1048
00:42:38,910 --> 00:42:37,060
the effect of DHT the system is a

1049
00:42:41,370 --> 00:42:38,920
combination of laser treatment and web

1050
00:42:44,070 --> 00:42:41,380
products which consists of bio cleansing

1051
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:44,080
shampoo thickening conditioner scalp

1052
00:42:50,460 --> 00:42:48,370
scrub scalp therapy and scope serum the

1053
00:42:51,990 --> 00:42:50,470
laser will help you regrow your hair and

1054
00:42:53,730 --> 00:42:52,000
the wet products will stop your hair

1055
00:42:55,890 --> 00:42:53,740
loss and save the hair that's left on

1056
00:42:58,890 --> 00:42:55,900
your head right now there are no drugs

1057
00:43:01,830 --> 00:42:58,900
to be taken no side effects and is one

1058
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:01,840
hundred percent safe two things that

1059
00:43:06,210 --> 00:43:03,970
immediately raised my suspicions with

1060
00:43:08,010 --> 00:43:06,220
the use of the term wet products to

1061
00:43:10,230 --> 00:43:08,020
denote what i would call drugs or

1062
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:10,240
chemicals in the claim of no side

1063
00:43:15,180 --> 00:43:12,610
effects in one hundred percent safety in

1064
00:43:16,830 --> 00:43:15,190
fact I was so suspicious that I

1065
00:43:18,810 --> 00:43:16,840
immediately searched the email and

1066
00:43:21,330 --> 00:43:18,820
attached documents for the word natural

1067
00:43:23,510 --> 00:43:21,340
which is another red flag word but it

1068
00:43:26,190 --> 00:43:23,520
was not there so I continued to read a

1069
00:43:28,530 --> 00:43:26,200
document listing the ingredients in each

1070
00:43:30,390 --> 00:43:28,540
of the wet products suggested that most

1071
00:43:32,610 --> 00:43:30,400
of them were plant extracts and common

1072
00:43:33,900 --> 00:43:32,620
hair and body care chemicals having

1073
00:43:35,580 --> 00:43:33,910
spent a significant amount of time

1074
00:43:37,890 --> 00:43:35,590
trying to figure out what the

1075
00:43:39,660 --> 00:43:37,900
ingredients meant I found none that are

1076
00:43:41,940 --> 00:43:39,670
claimed anywhere else to have any effect

1077
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:41,950
on hair loss and most were completely

1078
00:43:46,620 --> 00:43:44,530
inert it was interesting to know that

1079
00:43:48,750 --> 00:43:46,630
all the web products included mistletoe

1080
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:48,760
so even if your hair doesn't grow at

1081
00:43:53,820 --> 00:43:50,850
least you might get kissed on Christmas

1082
00:43:55,500 --> 00:43:53,830
curiously the ingredients list concluded

1083
00:43:57,960 --> 00:43:55,510
with an explanation of what cedar plank

1084
00:43:59,880 --> 00:43:57,970
Richter was according to the document

1085
00:44:01,290 --> 00:43:59,890
the explanation came from that well

1086
00:44:04,500 --> 00:44:01,300
known source of medical information

1087
00:44:06,300 --> 00:44:04,510
Google the last and most interesting

1088
00:44:09,180 --> 00:44:06,310
document was the one titled limo

1089
00:44:10,420 --> 00:44:09,190
clinical trial this is what the trial

1090
00:44:12,940 --> 00:44:10,430
abstract said

1091
00:44:14,650 --> 00:44:12,950
the purpose of this study was for

1092
00:44:16,690 --> 00:44:14,660
confirming the efficacy of low laser

1093
00:44:19,270 --> 00:44:16,700
light therapy using a limo for the

1094
00:44:21,819 --> 00:44:19,280
stimulation of hair growth 15 patients

1095
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:21,829
10 males and five females with under

1096
00:44:26,950 --> 00:44:24,530
genetic alopecia underwent treatment for

1097
00:44:28,569 --> 00:44:26,960
a four-month period hair counts were

1098
00:44:30,819 --> 00:44:28,579
affected very been officially in both

1099
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:30,829
sexes but the female shows more

1100
00:44:35,500 --> 00:44:33,770
improvement than the mail to anyone with

1101
00:44:38,650 --> 00:44:35,510
even a moderate understanding of science

1102
00:44:40,569 --> 00:44:38,660
this will be it a studied dedicated to

1103
00:44:42,849 --> 00:44:40,579
confirm rather than test the veracity of

1104
00:44:44,740 --> 00:44:42,859
a hypothesis is so inherently flawed

1105
00:44:47,559 --> 00:44:44,750
that its value as evidence would be

1106
00:44:49,270 --> 00:44:47,569
extremely low scientific testing is all

1107
00:44:52,299 --> 00:44:49,280
about finding out whether something

1108
00:44:55,750 --> 00:44:52,309
works not confirming that it does yet I

1109
00:44:57,819 --> 00:44:55,760
read on the next sections claimed that

1110
00:44:59,799 --> 00:44:57,829
low-level laser therapy has been shown

1111
00:45:01,829 --> 00:44:59,809
to have several effects including

1112
00:45:05,349 --> 00:45:01,839
anti-inflammation in immunosuppression

1113
00:45:06,970 --> 00:45:05,359
yes according to the document low-level

1114
00:45:09,790 --> 00:45:06,980
laser therapy will suppress the immune

1115
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:09,800
system obviously none of the claims are

1116
00:45:13,359 --> 00:45:11,450
referenced then the study is not signed

1117
00:45:15,039 --> 00:45:13,369
so there is no way to know whether this

1118
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:15,049
is an honest mistake by a knowledgeable

1119
00:45:20,079 --> 00:45:18,170
person or as I suspect a sign of utter

1120
00:45:23,170 --> 00:45:20,089
ignorance and careless disregard for the

1121
00:45:25,930 --> 00:45:23,180
truth the materials in methods section

1122
00:45:27,549 --> 00:45:25,940
is 18 lines longer six of which are used

1123
00:45:30,130 --> 00:45:27,559
to exalt the safety and reported

1124
00:45:31,990 --> 00:45:30,140
efficacy of the limo laser most of the

1125
00:45:34,420 --> 00:45:32,000
rest of this section describes how the

1126
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:34,430
limo was used and only the very last

1127
00:45:39,940 --> 00:45:37,010
sentence two lines long explains how

1128
00:45:41,650 --> 00:45:39,950
hair growth was measured naturally there

1129
00:45:43,390 --> 00:45:41,660
is so little information that it is

1130
00:45:45,130 --> 00:45:43,400
virtually impossible to tell whether the

1131
00:45:46,690 --> 00:45:45,140
measurements are meaningful it is not

1132
00:45:47,980 --> 00:45:46,700
even clear whether the before and after

1133
00:45:50,799 --> 00:45:47,990
measurements were taken from the same

1134
00:45:52,569 --> 00:45:50,809
place there is certainly no mention of

1135
00:45:55,690 --> 00:45:52,579
testing being blind let alone

1136
00:45:57,640 --> 00:45:55,700
double-blind perhaps the most curious

1137
00:45:59,740 --> 00:45:57,650
aspect of the materials in methods

1138
00:46:01,900 --> 00:45:59,750
section is that it says nothing at all

1139
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:01,910
about the lima wet products in other

1140
00:46:06,700 --> 00:46:03,770
words the one extremely small

1141
00:46:09,849 --> 00:46:06,710
unreferenced poorly documented control

1142
00:46:11,859 --> 00:46:09,859
free unblinded in unsigned study which

1143
00:46:14,260 --> 00:46:11,869
is the entire evidence base for limors

1144
00:46:15,789 --> 00:46:14,270
efficacy says nothing at all about the

1145
00:46:19,569 --> 00:46:15,799
part of the product that provides

1146
00:46:21,250 --> 00:46:19,579
ongoing revenue the document ends with

1147
00:46:22,620 --> 00:46:21,260
the results and this is the description

1148
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:22,630
of the results

1149
00:46:27,900 --> 00:46:24,970
the scientific data for the hair counts

1150
00:46:30,089 --> 00:46:27,910
is demonstrated in table 1 in summary

1151
00:46:31,769 --> 00:46:30,099
table 1 shows that the hair counts

1152
00:46:36,210 --> 00:46:31,779
increased in the temporal area an

1153
00:46:39,269 --> 00:46:36,220
average of 67.2 percent in men 72.3

1154
00:46:41,190 --> 00:46:39,279
percent in women and 68.2 percent for

1155
00:46:44,549 --> 00:46:41,200
all patients there was greater

1156
00:46:47,700 --> 00:46:44,559
improvement in females both sexes did

1157
00:46:49,410 --> 00:46:47,710
benefit significantly in addition there

1158
00:46:52,410 --> 00:46:49,420
can be improvement of scalp blindness

1159
00:46:53,910 --> 00:46:52,420
and flakiness in all patients they may

1160
00:46:56,009 --> 00:46:53,920
also be an increase in hair shaft

1161
00:46:59,309 --> 00:46:56,019
diameter along with an increased number

1162
00:47:00,900 --> 00:46:59,319
of total hair follicles overall almost

1163
00:47:02,910 --> 00:47:00,910
all patients felt that their hair and

1164
00:47:05,940 --> 00:47:02,920
scalp felt healthier and fuller after

1165
00:47:08,009 --> 00:47:05,950
using the limo the document ends with

1166
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:08,019
before and after photos most of which

1167
00:47:14,460 --> 00:47:10,210
clearly show longer hearing the after

1168
00:47:16,589 --> 00:47:14,470
shot not more here just longer here from

1169
00:47:18,450 --> 00:47:16,599
a scientific perspective I'd have to say

1170
00:47:20,039 --> 00:47:18,460
that the study limon sent me falls well

1171
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:20,049
short of providing evidence of efficacy

1172
00:47:24,900 --> 00:47:22,690
for its products based on available

1173
00:47:26,519 --> 00:47:24,910
information purchasing and using Lima

1174
00:47:28,650 --> 00:47:26,529
could very well turn out to be an

1175
00:47:30,720 --> 00:47:28,660
expensive exercise in wishful thinking

1176
00:47:33,210 --> 00:47:30,730
and it would advise anyone contemplating

1177
00:47:36,049 --> 00:47:33,220
taking out the credit card to take the

1178
00:47:39,900 --> 00:47:36,059
claims limo makes with a grain of salt

1179
00:47:41,819 --> 00:47:39,910
PostScript lemos scalp scrub is referred

1180
00:47:45,390 --> 00:47:41,829
to several times in all documents as

1181
00:47:58,170 --> 00:47:45,400
scalp and body scrub does any lemo

1182
00:48:02,530 --> 00:48:00,790
today in a big shout out to Desiree

1183
00:48:05,110 --> 00:48:02,540
shell and the rest of the skeptically

1184
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:05,120
speaking team we love you very much all

1185
00:48:10,030 --> 00:48:07,010
of us here from the skeptics own podcast

1186
00:48:13,060 --> 00:48:10,040
and the token skeptic podcast so keep it

1187
00:48:14,620 --> 00:48:13,070
going on you don't want to know what out

1188
00:48:16,630 --> 00:48:14,630
of the morning it is that I'm recording

1189
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:16,640
this but I'm certainly something really

1190
00:48:22,300 --> 00:48:20,090
respectable over there in Canada yeah

1191
00:48:27,550 --> 00:48:22,310
I'll just leave it much love from all of

1192
00:48:30,580 --> 00:48:27,560
us oh happy Anniversary happy

1193
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:30,590
Anniversary happy Anniversary happy

1194
00:48:45,100 --> 00:48:36,410
Anniversary join us now for drinking

1195
00:48:47,380 --> 00:48:45,110
skeptically in the think tank um hello

1196
00:48:49,660 --> 00:48:47,390
around hello Rachel how are you today

1197
00:48:51,730 --> 00:48:49,670
very good now we're with a very special

1198
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:51,740
guest today at Canberra skeptics in the

1199
00:49:00,640 --> 00:48:56,450
pub hello to mr. PZ Myers hello sir hey

1200
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:00,650
Zed professor okay peez it no well it's

1201
00:49:05,410 --> 00:49:03,770
we say pays it but we also say pz

1202
00:49:08,530 --> 00:49:05,420
because that is how you pronounce it yes

1203
00:49:10,240 --> 00:49:08,540
I tell my mother yeah okay we've also

1204
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:10,250
got some other skeptics here with us and

1205
00:49:16,570 --> 00:49:13,610
we have bread pirate Mick good five week

1206
00:49:19,420 --> 00:49:16,580
on Twitter we have at laws on Twitter

1207
00:49:22,900 --> 00:49:19,430
and leave all this evil dees on Twitter

1208
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:22,910
yeah and at Corrin stone at car and stow

1209
00:49:27,940 --> 00:49:24,770
on Twitter Hawaii anybody have real

1210
00:49:31,410 --> 00:49:27,950
names here no just no one has romantic

1211
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:31,420
said hey I was i at pz myers

1212
00:49:37,260 --> 00:49:35,410
that work that works too so you just

1213
00:49:41,460 --> 00:49:37,270
gave us a very interesting talk pc about

1214
00:49:43,079 --> 00:49:41,470
well god lots of things actually there

1215
00:49:46,319 --> 00:49:43,089
was a lot of discussion as well after

1216
00:49:48,500 --> 00:49:46,329
your talk and a lot of it was about sort

1217
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:48,510
of what someone referred to as a secular

1218
00:49:53,450 --> 00:49:50,770
what was the word they used to describe

1219
00:49:55,740 --> 00:49:53,460
Mike a secular Mecca or something uh

1220
00:49:58,620 --> 00:49:55,750
well we heard the word secular movement

1221
00:50:01,829 --> 00:49:58,630
want a lot of secular utopia actually

1222
00:50:03,329 --> 00:50:01,839
utopia yeah yeah yeah and I don't

1223
00:50:06,720 --> 00:50:03,339
believe in utopias there's no such thing

1224
00:50:09,839 --> 00:50:06,730
no okay but there are ideals we can

1225
00:50:12,569 --> 00:50:09,849
strive for and the kind of ideal I see

1226
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:12,579
is in a secular world is one where we

1227
00:50:18,780 --> 00:50:15,010
argue over the evidence and try to

1228
00:50:21,150 --> 00:50:18,790
follow where it leads it won't always

1229
00:50:23,039 --> 00:50:21,160
work but it will work better than the

1230
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:23,049
alternative which is to argue over no

1231
00:50:27,510 --> 00:50:25,690
evidence at all who knows where that

1232
00:50:29,370 --> 00:50:27,520
will go can I just say something before

1233
00:50:30,990 --> 00:50:29,380
you go on and you what you're saying is

1234
00:50:32,339 --> 00:50:31,000
incredibly interesting but you just

1235
00:50:34,410 --> 00:50:32,349
mentioned something about arguing the

1236
00:50:36,720 --> 00:50:34,420
evidence over or arguing for the

1237
00:50:41,910 --> 00:50:36,730
evidence you helped me when the shorty

1238
00:50:44,309 --> 00:50:41,920
awards recently and thank you very much

1239
00:50:46,349 --> 00:50:44,319
for all the whole you're cheating but um

1240
00:50:48,089 --> 00:50:46,359
yes just when you said evidence such as

1241
00:50:50,430 --> 00:50:48,099
made me think of joseph mercola and my

1242
00:50:53,789 --> 00:50:50,440
cat is actually evidence free yeah but

1243
00:50:56,430 --> 00:50:53,799
it's free zone exactly actually can I

1244
00:50:58,650 --> 00:50:56,440
tell you a little anecdote pressuring I

1245
00:51:01,500 --> 00:50:58,660
also asked him mention to help me out

1246
00:51:03,329 --> 00:51:01,510
with the shorties and the thing that I

1247
00:51:05,099 --> 00:51:03,339
noticed when you blogged about it and

1248
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:05,109
when you tweeted it I would open up my

1249
00:51:08,069 --> 00:51:06,490
email every morning and I would have

1250
00:51:10,140 --> 00:51:08,079
pages and pages and pages of

1251
00:51:12,240 --> 00:51:10,150
notifications but so and so is now

1252
00:51:14,099 --> 00:51:12,250
following you on Twitter and that's when

1253
00:51:16,380 --> 00:51:14,109
of course I took over from McCullough

1254
00:51:19,049 --> 00:51:16,390
and when I asked him mentioned to help

1255
00:51:21,720 --> 00:51:19,059
me out and he has 56 thousand fans I

1256
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:21,730
think on Twitter and I got a total of

1257
00:51:26,970 --> 00:51:25,450
nine votes out of that you won't love

1258
00:51:28,660 --> 00:51:26,980
you learn in this critical the invention

1259
00:51:30,700 --> 00:51:28,670
is a weapon

1260
00:51:33,220 --> 00:51:30,710
how do you train your fans so well

1261
00:51:36,870 --> 00:51:33,230
that's what I'm well they're not fans

1262
00:51:41,650 --> 00:51:36,880
are minions mention his fans I have

1263
00:51:44,470 --> 00:51:41,660
slaves minions yeah that apparently do

1264
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:44,480
whatever you Austin tape it tomorrow

1265
00:51:49,270 --> 00:51:47,690
very obviously no but I think one

1266
00:51:51,190 --> 00:51:49,280
difference might be is that that people

1267
00:51:54,549 --> 00:51:51,200
follow Tim Minchin for the humor and

1268
00:51:58,329 --> 00:51:54,559
music and I have people who are

1269
00:52:00,069 --> 00:51:58,339
extremely fanatically rabidly dedicated

1270
00:52:01,990 --> 00:52:00,079
to the scientific method never insane

1271
00:52:04,089 --> 00:52:02,000
isn't it isn't it a bit of a

1272
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:04,099
contradiction intense though maybe three

1273
00:52:07,240 --> 00:52:06,290
dedicated to know because that's

1274
00:52:09,220 --> 00:52:07,250
something else we talked about in the

1275
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:09,230
discussions here wasn't it is that yeah

1276
00:52:12,339 --> 00:52:10,490
we're spending at the back of tomorrow

1277
00:52:15,309 --> 00:52:12,349
yeah we had several people talking about

1278
00:52:18,039 --> 00:52:15,319
how atheists have this reputation as

1279
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:18,049
being cold and distant and calculating

1280
00:52:23,170 --> 00:52:20,690
and they don't connect a neiman way and

1281
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:23,180
so forth but of course we do I mean

1282
00:52:29,380 --> 00:52:26,690
words are not yeah we're human and i

1283
00:52:35,230 --> 00:52:29,390
think it's i think it's great that

1284
00:52:37,359 --> 00:52:35,240
people love the scientific method you

1285
00:52:39,099 --> 00:52:37,369
know imagining oh my gosh oh don't get

1286
00:52:41,700 --> 00:52:39,109
me wrong of course oh yeah i definitely

1287
00:52:45,609 --> 00:52:41,710
agree just that i would hope that

1288
00:52:47,770 --> 00:52:45,619
something that is rational if it just

1289
00:52:48,970 --> 00:52:47,780
somehow it does seems to be to be if it

1290
00:52:51,130 --> 00:52:48,980
seems to me there's a bit of

1291
00:52:53,140 --> 00:52:51,140
contradiction between daddy rapidly

1292
00:52:54,670 --> 00:52:53,150
devoted to something no no no that

1293
00:52:56,140 --> 00:52:54,680
that's the problem is if so many people

1294
00:52:58,299 --> 00:52:56,150
think that rational means something

1295
00:52:59,829 --> 00:52:58,309
entirely different from emotional and I

1296
00:53:04,210 --> 00:52:59,839
think rational emotional go together

1297
00:53:06,220 --> 00:53:04,220
beautifully yes like like butter and

1298
00:53:08,710 --> 00:53:06,230
vegemite or something whatever whatever

1299
00:53:10,450 --> 00:53:08,720
you got was i wasn't born here okay i

1300
00:53:12,220 --> 00:53:10,460
don't hate that stuff it's an alien

1301
00:53:14,109 --> 00:53:12,230
concept to be different but now it's

1302
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:14,119
it's these are concepts that work

1303
00:53:19,240 --> 00:53:16,490
together very very well and i think that

1304
00:53:21,819 --> 00:53:19,250
what we want as human beings is for a

1305
00:53:25,740 --> 00:53:21,829
rational movement that doesn't deny the

1306
00:53:27,780 --> 00:53:25,750
fact that you know we bunk we care

1307
00:53:29,900 --> 00:53:27,790
we're passionate we have emotions and

1308
00:53:34,020 --> 00:53:29,910
feelings and and there's things we

1309
00:53:36,240 --> 00:53:34,030
dearly loved and I would just like to be

1310
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:36,250
feel free to say well science is all

1311
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:38,650
those things I'm really love well I say

1312
00:53:42,930 --> 00:53:40,330
it all the time I think a flip side of

1313
00:53:45,060 --> 00:53:42,940
that too is that perhaps people wouldn't

1314
00:53:46,710 --> 00:53:45,070
be so passionate about getting behind

1315
00:53:49,890 --> 00:53:46,720
science if it was just obviously

1316
00:53:52,980 --> 00:53:49,900
accepted that it worked but I because it

1317
00:53:54,750 --> 00:53:52,990
gets attacked but they think they've got

1318
00:53:57,990 --> 00:53:54,760
evidence should they've got their

1319
00:53:59,880 --> 00:53:58,000
evidence is just very bad because the

1320
00:54:01,440 --> 00:53:59,890
scientific method gets attacked I think

1321
00:54:03,060 --> 00:54:01,450
those of us who think it does work I

1322
00:54:04,500 --> 00:54:03,070
think we do get passionate about and

1323
00:54:07,410 --> 00:54:04,510
getting behind it and defending it

1324
00:54:10,050 --> 00:54:07,420
because it's it does work with a Cena

1325
00:54:12,210 --> 00:54:10,060
yeah I created there there's always this

1326
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:12,220
backlash effect and if you tag something

1327
00:54:14,730 --> 00:54:13,450
people will defend it more passionately

1328
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:14,740
but I think there's more to it than that

1329
00:54:19,950 --> 00:54:17,530
because people are into science

1330
00:54:22,770 --> 00:54:19,960
appreciate the fact that that we see so

1331
00:54:25,230 --> 00:54:22,780
much more with science that that it's a

1332
00:54:27,240 --> 00:54:25,240
very human thing to wreck recognize that

1333
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:27,250
we are little beings on a small planet

1334
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:29,170
and it little speck in the galaxy and

1335
00:54:33,390 --> 00:54:30,850
annals kind of thing and there are

1336
00:54:35,430 --> 00:54:33,400
things that are greater than us there

1337
00:54:37,050 --> 00:54:35,440
was some sorry oh and I'm just going to

1338
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:37,060
say that that science is the way that

1339
00:54:41,250 --> 00:54:38,890
shows us those things are greater than

1340
00:54:43,140 --> 00:54:41,260
us and religion doesn't religion makes a

1341
00:54:45,690 --> 00:54:43,150
fairy tales about what's greater than us

1342
00:54:48,420 --> 00:54:45,700
and and it's so fake and phony in it

1343
00:54:49,860 --> 00:54:48,430
it's annoying what why you get excited

1344
00:54:53,220 --> 00:54:49,870
about God when you can get excited about

1345
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:53,230
Oh planet Saturn or hox genes or

1346
00:54:59,810 --> 00:54:54,850
something that's really marvelous and

1347
00:55:02,310 --> 00:54:59,820
powerful there was 365 days of astronomy

1348
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:02,320
episode that I heard on on the way down

1349
00:55:08,850 --> 00:55:06,370
here that they did survey of the people

1350
00:55:12,330 --> 00:55:08,860
who contributed to Galaxy Zoo which is a

1351
00:55:15,060 --> 00:55:12,340
we're basically of public science it's a

1352
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:15,070
they asked people to categorize galaxies

1353
00:55:18,690 --> 00:55:17,050
so these the people would download

1354
00:55:21,330 --> 00:55:18,700
images of galaxies and we have to

1355
00:55:22,950 --> 00:55:21,340
categorize them as rotating clockwise or

1356
00:55:24,210 --> 00:55:22,960
counterclockwise and they categorize the

1357
00:55:27,090 --> 00:55:24,220
colors and all kinds of things like that

1358
00:55:28,890 --> 00:55:27,100
and hundreds of thousands of people

1359
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:28,900
signed up and 10,000 people actually

1360
00:55:34,830 --> 00:55:31,450
responded to a survey that they did

1361
00:55:38,589 --> 00:55:34,840
about why they decided to sign up and a

1362
00:55:40,509 --> 00:55:38,599
lot of the responses were around the

1363
00:55:43,479 --> 00:55:40,519
pneus of the universe and our place in

1364
00:55:45,940 --> 00:55:43,489
it and about and about you know the

1365
00:55:47,859 --> 00:55:45,950
overwhelming feeling that they have

1366
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:47,869
about the universe but quite a

1367
00:55:53,529 --> 00:55:50,930
significant proportion did it because

1368
00:55:56,529 --> 00:55:53,539
they wanted they like the idea of being

1369
00:55:58,120 --> 00:55:56,539
part of a scientific exploration and

1370
00:55:59,920 --> 00:55:58,130
some of them actually like the idea of

1371
00:56:01,809 --> 00:55:59,930
perhaps they'll be the first to see

1372
00:56:03,910 --> 00:56:01,819
something the first to find something

1373
00:56:05,739 --> 00:56:03,920
because there are hundreds of thousands

1374
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:05,749
of galaxies in that or millions of

1375
00:56:10,269 --> 00:56:07,970
galaxies in that certain that project

1376
00:56:12,489 --> 00:56:10,279
and some of them will be the first to

1377
00:56:15,339 --> 00:56:12,499
see that galaxy right so that people

1378
00:56:18,219 --> 00:56:15,349
really like that sense of exploration in

1379
00:56:20,109 --> 00:56:18,229
to those who are not active scientists

1380
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:20,119
who you know working in there in the

1381
00:56:24,339 --> 00:56:22,130
field every day that could be very

1382
00:56:26,019 --> 00:56:24,349
strong enough oh yeah and I know there's

1383
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:26,029
projects out there they do so much alike

1384
00:56:29,289 --> 00:56:27,650
folding at home if you heard that the

1385
00:56:31,029 --> 00:56:29,299
protein game project is distributed

1386
00:56:32,739 --> 00:56:31,039
computing and and and things like that

1387
00:56:34,870 --> 00:56:32,749
are popular because people want to be a

1388
00:56:36,130 --> 00:56:34,880
part of it and by the way 29 people

1389
00:56:37,690 --> 00:56:36,140
actually responded that they did it

1390
00:56:43,539 --> 00:56:37,700
because they were bored at work so this

1391
00:56:44,950 --> 00:56:43,549
ah they are honest realism okay but I

1392
00:56:46,749 --> 00:56:44,960
guess that's a little bit like city as

1393
00:56:48,099 --> 00:56:46,759
well isn't it that people use their

1394
00:56:50,170 --> 00:56:48,109
computers when they're not using them to

1395
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:50,180
search for that stuff and when you can

1396
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:51,650
imagine if you were the first person to

1397
00:56:58,059 --> 00:56:53,930
get something back from space that you

1398
00:57:01,420 --> 00:56:58,069
could dad yeah if we could understand it

1399
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:01,430
I don't know hi yeah I think there's a

1400
00:57:06,430 --> 00:57:03,170
lot of people out there who love science

1401
00:57:07,870 --> 00:57:06,440
and grew up loving it moved into

1402
00:57:10,690 --> 00:57:07,880
something else it's something else but

1403
00:57:12,579 --> 00:57:10,700
still want to be they want to be part of

1404
00:57:15,310 --> 00:57:12,589
its like I ought to tell my kids we roll

1405
00:57:18,430 --> 00:57:15,320
in a study for diabetes research we're

1406
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:18,440
certain I sediment you know even if

1407
00:57:23,590 --> 00:57:20,330
nothing comes out of it for you we will

1408
00:57:24,910 --> 00:57:23,600
be contributing to the Great Society be

1409
00:57:28,150 --> 00:57:24,920
contributing the scientific knowledge

1410
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:28,160
and that's awesome yes I get letters all

1411
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:29,810
the time from people who say well you

1412
00:57:33,580 --> 00:57:31,490
know I'm I'm 40 years old and I'm an

1413
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:33,590
insurance agent and I learned that I

1414
00:57:38,410 --> 00:57:37,130
love science what can I do and I usually

1415
00:57:43,060 --> 00:57:38,420
tell them yeah Chuck your career and go

1416
00:57:44,350 --> 00:57:43,070
back to school seriously I mean you've

1417
00:57:46,150 --> 00:57:44,360
got one life to live do what you love

1418
00:57:48,310 --> 00:57:46,160
doing and if you think you love science

1419
00:57:51,340 --> 00:57:48,320
do it but yeah these other little things

1420
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:51,350
and and there's also now there's other

1421
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:52,730
things that you can do that are much

1422
00:57:58,270 --> 00:57:55,010
more personal like you know volunteering

1423
00:58:00,490 --> 00:57:58,280
at your local zoo or museum helping out

1424
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:00,500
at the local school just getting out

1425
00:58:06,010 --> 00:58:03,530
there and introducing young people to

1426
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:06,020
things that you know you don't even have

1427
00:58:10,060 --> 00:58:08,570
to be a science scientists be smarter

1428
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:10,070
about some things in science than a

1429
00:58:14,290 --> 00:58:11,810
little kid you also get out there and

1430
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:14,300
teach it's always a good thing to do do

1431
00:58:19,810 --> 00:58:16,450
you find hazy that you spend more time

1432
00:58:21,370 --> 00:58:19,820
debunking nonsense than trying to get

1433
00:58:23,050 --> 00:58:21,380
out that sort of what you talk about

1434
00:58:25,330 --> 00:58:23,060
educating people about a beauty of

1435
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:25,340
science and the intricacies oh it

1436
00:58:30,310 --> 00:58:28,370
depends on on where I am this year I'm

1437
00:58:32,290 --> 00:58:30,320
on sabbatical which I found has an

1438
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:32,300
unfortunate effect and that I'm not

1439
00:58:35,140 --> 00:58:33,650
reading as much of the current

1440
00:58:37,180 --> 00:58:35,150
scientific literature because I've got

1441
00:58:39,730 --> 00:58:37,190
all these other things I'm doing during

1442
00:58:42,010 --> 00:58:39,740
the school year though no that's the big

1443
00:58:43,270 --> 00:58:42,020
thing is I'm constantly reading the

1444
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:43,280
journals to keep up on the material my

1445
00:58:47,980 --> 00:58:44,930
field because I'm having to teach it and

1446
00:58:50,380 --> 00:58:47,990
and so what I find then is that I

1447
00:58:53,290 --> 00:58:50,390
express myself in the blog by explaining

1448
00:58:54,910 --> 00:58:53,300
here's here's what i read this week plop

1449
00:58:56,830 --> 00:58:54,920
here it is this is stuff that's going to

1450
00:58:58,810 --> 00:58:56,840
go into my lectures so it all works

1451
00:59:01,780 --> 00:58:58,820
together so yeah I spend a fair amount

1452
00:59:04,570 --> 00:59:01,790
of time on the positive aspects in the

1453
00:59:05,890 --> 00:59:04,580
right context right I don't ever want to

1454
00:59:08,290 --> 00:59:05,900
lose my job because if I'm not teaching

1455
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:08,300
I think that just goes spiraling into

1456
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:11,450
nothingness but yeah and this year it's

1457
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:12,530
been a little slack but it's going to

1458
00:59:16,660 --> 00:59:13,930
change again next year when i get back

1459
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:16,670
teaching off an almond course i'm very

1460
00:59:21,230 --> 00:59:18,890
excited about and

1461
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:21,240
expect a whole bunch of post about you

1462
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:25,050
eco devo next fall k be there I want to

1463
00:59:29,180 --> 00:59:27,450
ask not just like do you think if we can

1464
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:29,190
do a better job event educating people

1465
00:59:33,050 --> 00:59:31,170
about science generally will have to

1466
00:59:38,270 --> 00:59:33,060
spend less time debunking specific

1467
00:59:40,130 --> 00:59:38,280
issues I think that what I've talked to

1468
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:40,140
educators what I've often told him is

1469
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:41,970
I'm not that concerned about teaching

1470
00:59:45,980 --> 00:59:44,490
evolution in high schools I'm much more

1471
00:59:47,900 --> 00:59:45,990
concerned about teaching critical

1472
00:59:49,490 --> 00:59:47,910
thinking skills in the grade schools in

1473
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:49,500
the elementary schools you know that

1474
00:59:53,780 --> 00:59:51,930
little eight year olds ought to be

1475
00:59:56,920 --> 00:59:53,790
taught how to do an experiment with

1476
00:59:58,970 --> 00:59:56,930
controls and analyze it appropriately

1477
01:00:01,640 --> 00:59:58,980
that I think would be a multiple

1478
01:00:03,850 --> 01:00:01,650
powerful tool to eradicate a lot of the

1479
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:03,860
nonsense that's going on out there I

1480
01:00:08,410 --> 01:00:07,050
wanted to ask you but something that you

1481
01:00:13,100 --> 01:00:08,420
might be familiar with and that's

1482
01:00:17,180 --> 01:00:13,110
atheism well yeah that's nothing i've

1483
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:17,190
heard that there's nothing to it are you

1484
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:18,930
being australia for what a couple of

1485
01:00:25,790 --> 01:00:22,290
weeks now almost ten days yes right so

1486
01:00:28,790 --> 01:00:25,800
so you've had a bit of a chance to see

1487
01:00:31,870 --> 01:00:28,800
what things are like here and my my own

1488
01:00:34,820 --> 01:00:31,880
feeling is that australians much more

1489
01:00:37,820 --> 01:00:34,830
well australians care less about

1490
01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:37,830
religion then Americans that's how Steve

1491
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:41,130
field and got a like a great be fielding

1492
01:00:47,270 --> 01:00:45,570
got 50 6735 primary votes which is a

1493
01:00:49,340 --> 01:00:47,280
very very small number there's something

1494
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:49,350
in the electrical system in electoral

1495
01:00:54,050 --> 01:00:50,970
system in Australia that allowed him to

1496
01:00:55,580 --> 01:00:54,060
actually get into the Senate so it's a

1497
01:00:58,670 --> 01:00:55,590
felt fault of the system not of the

1498
01:01:01,280 --> 01:00:58,680
people in circles 56,000 except for the

1499
01:01:06,830 --> 01:01:01,290
56,000 but it allows about 56,000 not as

1500
01:01:08,420 --> 01:01:06,840
I although to you I want you to ask you

1501
01:01:11,660 --> 01:01:08,430
about what your senses of the

1502
01:01:14,510 --> 01:01:11,670
differences in the way religion religion

1503
01:01:16,730 --> 01:01:14,520
and atheism are in the public sphere in

1504
01:01:18,050 --> 01:01:16,740
those two countries well it's it's a

1505
01:01:20,210 --> 01:01:18,060
little tough for me to judge because I'm

1506
01:01:21,410 --> 01:01:20,220
going to bubble here right then I come

1507
01:01:22,510 --> 01:01:21,420
here and all these atheists come

1508
01:01:24,910 --> 01:01:22,520
flocking around me

1509
01:01:27,220 --> 01:01:24,920
they hide the ugly seamy side of

1510
01:01:31,300 --> 01:01:27,230
Australia from me so I only see the

1511
01:01:34,030 --> 01:01:31,310
beauty all right but um no but you know

1512
01:01:36,340 --> 01:01:34,040
I wheat the papers too and you know that

1513
01:01:37,630 --> 01:01:36,350
if you read the papers United States and

1514
01:01:39,490 --> 01:01:37,640
read the papers in Australia at the same

1515
01:01:41,620 --> 01:01:39,500
time what you find is pretty much

1516
01:01:44,350 --> 01:01:41,630
everybody's more concerned about sports

1517
01:01:46,180 --> 01:01:44,360
and celebrities then they are these

1518
01:01:47,470 --> 01:01:46,190
kinds of issues so you just throw that

1519
01:01:51,310 --> 01:01:47,480
all out there's a lot of commonality

1520
01:01:54,340 --> 01:01:51,320
there that in the United States it's

1521
01:01:56,260 --> 01:01:54,350
considered more of an asset to wear your

1522
01:01:57,640 --> 01:01:56,270
religion on your sleeve and it is here I

1523
01:01:59,410 --> 01:01:57,650
get the distinct impression that if

1524
01:02:00,970 --> 01:01:59,420
somebody went out waving across and

1525
01:02:04,660 --> 01:02:00,980
saying vote for me because Christ loves

1526
01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:04,670
me he'll be laughed out of you know they

1527
01:02:09,970 --> 01:02:07,610
would get 56,000 yeah that's the same

1528
01:02:11,740 --> 01:02:09,980
wing nuts applause yeah yeah yeah yeah

1529
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:11,750
but in the united states that you know

1530
01:02:16,810 --> 01:02:13,130
that would that would qualify you to run

1531
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:16,820
for president united states so there

1532
01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:18,410
there is a difference in attitude that

1533
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:20,450
we actually had an atheist climb in a

1534
01:02:24,700 --> 01:02:22,490
particular in a bar you know declared

1535
01:02:27,630 --> 01:02:24,710
atheist Prime Minister many years ago oh

1536
01:02:29,860 --> 01:02:27,640
ho but uh we can imagine that thing is

1537
01:02:32,140 --> 01:02:29,870
the funny thing about Bob Hawke was

1538
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:32,150
people didn't really consider that an

1539
01:02:35,380 --> 01:02:33,290
issue at all I don't think we'll be

1540
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:35,390
considered an issue nowadays either no

1541
01:02:40,750 --> 01:02:38,570
but I think I mean even though we are we

1542
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:40,760
now have one of the more religious prime

1543
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:44,810
ministers in a long long time and that's

1544
01:02:49,390 --> 01:02:46,370
not considered an issue either because

1545
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:49,400
racing to oh yeah i think when we when

1546
01:02:53,830 --> 01:02:51,410
we win when the eight years conquer the

1547
01:02:55,540 --> 01:02:53,840
world what will happen is it will not be

1548
01:02:57,730 --> 01:02:55,550
considered an asset it's somebody's an

1549
01:03:00,810 --> 01:02:57,740
atheist running for office yeah it will

1550
01:03:02,890 --> 01:03:00,820
be an irrelevance ewc so what who cares

1551
01:03:05,230 --> 01:03:02,900
eunos already could run from calf with

1552
01:03:07,330 --> 01:03:05,240
his captor for president and we just say

1553
01:03:09,460 --> 01:03:07,340
who cares if this becomes something

1554
01:03:10,540 --> 01:03:09,470
that's a private issue that's removed

1555
01:03:12,490 --> 01:03:10,550
from the public sphere and we're not

1556
01:03:14,740 --> 01:03:12,500
going to worry and that's when we learn

1557
01:03:16,380 --> 01:03:14,750
that hasn't happened yet now you said

1558
01:03:19,710 --> 01:03:16,390
when

1559
01:03:23,250 --> 01:03:19,720
will you say hey you said wedding so the

1560
01:03:25,049 --> 01:03:23,260
only thing that's gonna happen barring

1561
01:03:27,599 --> 01:03:25,059
catastrophe do i hear the words going to

1562
01:03:29,789 --> 01:03:27,609
end in 2012 which is a smiley-faced yeah

1563
01:03:31,740 --> 01:03:29,799
yeah 30 days before my birthday I'm not

1564
01:03:34,319 --> 01:03:31,750
allowed so sorry you can happen on the

1565
01:03:35,549 --> 01:03:34,329
30th you know what you have to do is you

1566
01:03:37,980 --> 01:03:35,559
have to say that year you have to

1567
01:03:39,299 --> 01:03:37,990
celebrate your shape early it's a good

1568
01:03:42,750 --> 01:03:39,309
idea and then when the world doesn't end

1569
01:03:44,039 --> 01:03:42,760
you celebrate again you cannot lose but

1570
01:03:46,710 --> 01:03:44,049
yeah it's so aside from something like

1571
01:03:47,940 --> 01:03:46,720
that happening I think the trends are

1572
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:47,950
going the right direction even in that

1573
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:49,450
even in the crazy lil United States

1574
01:03:56,549 --> 01:03:52,690
there are so many outspoken atheist and

1575
01:03:59,069 --> 01:03:56,559
so much more acceptable that you know I

1576
01:04:02,670 --> 01:03:59,079
think if I have a reasonable lifespan

1577
01:04:03,820 --> 01:04:02,680
and all that kind of good stuff I'll see

1578
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:03,830
it happen

1579
01:04:08,620 --> 01:04:05,810
what did you think of have you had a

1580
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:08,630
chance to look at much the coverage from

1581
01:04:12,940 --> 01:04:10,850
atheists convention pz there was a lot

1582
01:04:15,160 --> 01:04:12,950
of bad coverage i wasn't me i actually

1583
01:04:17,830 --> 01:04:15,170
pushed a few things better yeah what did

1584
01:04:20,050 --> 01:04:17,840
you think about that I was surprised at

1585
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:20,060
the one good article that reviewed it

1586
01:04:24,610 --> 01:04:22,010
and partially and said nice things about

1587
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:24,620
it was in the Australian which I

1588
01:04:27,370 --> 01:04:25,970
understand is Rupert Murdoch's people

1589
01:04:29,380 --> 01:04:27,380
yeah that's right so it's generally can

1590
01:04:31,390 --> 01:04:29,390
see the right-wing paper yes and he

1591
01:04:33,340 --> 01:04:31,400
actually said you know they didn't come

1592
01:04:34,540 --> 01:04:33,350
out and endorse it isn't Lee just came

1593
01:04:35,860 --> 01:04:34,550
on so do you know there's a pretty good

1594
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:35,870
meeting and people got more involved

1595
01:04:45,670 --> 01:04:40,370
good time no the ABC agents others are

1596
01:04:48,340 --> 01:04:45,680
red dude if it doesn't show up I'm still

1597
01:04:50,980 --> 01:04:48,350
thumbs down yeah and yeah they were just

1598
01:04:54,550 --> 01:04:50,990
awful yeah oh but you didn't get did you

1599
01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:54,560
read and revolts oh no i haven't i don't

1600
01:05:00,040 --> 01:04:56,050
know if i want to now you don't want to

1601
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:00,050
do not want to yeah it's a good example

1602
01:05:06,790 --> 01:05:03,530
is actually take and really sort of

1603
01:05:08,310 --> 01:05:06,800
extreme view and then don't listen to

1604
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:08,320
the evidence and don't change their

1605
01:05:12,580 --> 01:05:10,250
position when they're deemed to be wrong

1606
01:05:15,130 --> 01:05:12,590
Andrew Bolt is an example of a

1607
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:15,140
right-wing extremist that anything that

1608
01:05:19,690 --> 01:05:17,930
is a right-wing extreme will he will

1609
01:05:22,060 --> 01:05:19,700
adopt regardless of anything year so

1610
01:05:24,220 --> 01:05:22,070
heating's religion is climate change

1611
01:05:26,290 --> 01:05:24,230
skepticism it's it's not a clearly

1612
01:05:27,820 --> 01:05:26,300
creationist surprisingly but I would

1613
01:05:31,450 --> 01:05:27,830
have expected him to pick that up too

1614
01:05:33,940 --> 01:05:31,460
but the overall theme is like you know

1615
01:05:36,640 --> 01:05:33,950
if it's right wing extremist view yes he

1616
01:05:39,790 --> 01:05:36,650
picked up on the Nazi tokens thing which

1617
01:05:41,350 --> 01:05:39,800
you probably heard then I just knew what

1618
01:05:44,590 --> 01:05:41,360
I heard Richard say that they're going

1619
01:05:49,690 --> 01:05:44,600
to happen yeah boy I'm so glad he said

1620
01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:49,700
it yeah not both of those people who

1621
01:05:53,059 --> 01:05:50,930
will not be my reading list in your

1622
01:05:57,120 --> 01:05:53,069
future don't worry

1623
01:06:02,460 --> 01:05:57,130
I've added Katherine's Ebony's my little

1624
01:06:04,859 --> 01:06:02,470
list of people I should read more no I

1625
01:06:08,039 --> 01:06:04,869
thought what was interesting about the

1626
01:06:09,630 --> 01:06:08,049
ABC coverage to was they often get

1627
01:06:11,609 --> 01:06:09,640
accused of being too left-wing and so I

1628
01:06:14,309 --> 01:06:11,619
can't they in an attempt to find balance

1629
01:06:16,799 --> 01:06:14,319
they actually do too much false balance

1630
01:06:19,170 --> 01:06:16,809
yes or I know that radio national sent

1631
01:06:24,029 --> 01:06:19,180
in about six or seven Christian people's

1632
01:06:26,190 --> 01:06:24,039
to Paisley plea criticize and write bad

1633
01:06:28,079 --> 01:06:26,200
things about the conference but I don't

1634
01:06:30,210 --> 01:06:28,089
think they sent him six atheist sturdy

1635
01:06:31,950 --> 01:06:30,220
the same thing you know show you they

1636
01:06:33,630 --> 01:06:31,960
try to compensate for being accused of

1637
01:06:36,150 --> 01:06:33,640
left-wing by going right to the other

1638
01:06:38,549 --> 01:06:36,160
side but I'm not adjustable and I say

1639
01:06:41,150 --> 01:06:38,559
though that there were quite critical

1640
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:41,160
articles about the what's called the

1641
01:06:46,769 --> 01:06:44,410
Parliament of world religions or yeah a

1642
01:06:49,349 --> 01:06:46,779
few a few a couple of months ago I think

1643
01:06:52,249 --> 01:06:49,359
was the in Melbourne government-funded

1644
01:06:54,569 --> 01:06:52,259
race unlike the eighties convention

1645
01:06:55,890 --> 01:06:54,579
there was a parliament of world

1646
01:06:57,259 --> 01:06:55,900
religions or something like that and

1647
01:07:00,509 --> 01:06:57,269
they had representatives of various

1648
01:07:02,759 --> 01:07:00,519
religions and that was I felt that was

1649
01:07:05,339 --> 01:07:02,769
covered fairly critically as well so

1650
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:05,349
perhaps into the overall attitude of

1651
01:07:09,390 --> 01:07:07,210
criticizing a conference around

1652
01:07:11,759 --> 01:07:09,400
something to do with religion well yeah

1653
01:07:12,720 --> 01:07:11,769
and also because you know you made the

1654
01:07:15,420 --> 01:07:12,730
distinction of left-wing and right-wing

1655
01:07:16,829 --> 01:07:15,430
those don't matter for atheism that

1656
01:07:20,370 --> 01:07:16,839
there are right-wing ideas and then

1657
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:20,380
Tobias and and often what I found is I I

1658
01:07:24,749 --> 01:07:22,690
can't stand either of them when it comes

1659
01:07:27,269 --> 01:07:24,759
to religion they are all sucking up to

1660
01:07:28,950 --> 01:07:27,279
religion and if they're not second to

1661
01:07:31,859 --> 01:07:28,960
religion their stuff in there sucking up

1662
01:07:33,599 --> 01:07:31,869
to New Age nonsense in the u.s. Prince

1663
01:07:35,009 --> 01:07:33,609
it's a big website that there's really

1664
01:07:36,839 --> 01:07:35,019
popular among the left wing is they're

1665
01:07:40,710 --> 01:07:36,849
having a post and you know this I

1666
01:07:43,380 --> 01:07:40,720
nothing device I mean it's a hotbed of

1667
01:07:46,319 --> 01:07:43,390
whack culinary esperas eat there yes

1668
01:07:47,470 --> 01:07:46,329
it's awful and there's all this new age

1669
01:07:50,210 --> 01:07:47,480
stuff don't work

1670
01:07:52,340 --> 01:07:50,220
Jenny max well they don't even pay lip

1671
01:07:54,320 --> 01:07:52,350
service to journalistic standards so

1672
01:07:57,230 --> 01:07:54,330
yeah I wouldn't gonna do whatever you

1673
01:08:00,500 --> 01:07:57,240
want so so it's a weird thing because

1674
01:08:03,230 --> 01:08:00,510
science and atheism do not have a friend

1675
01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:03,240
on the left or the right we're kind of

1676
01:08:08,570 --> 01:08:07,050
going it alone no ideally we would

1677
01:08:11,690 --> 01:08:08,580
building be building a political

1678
01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:11,700
coalition that you know a a rationalist

1679
01:08:15,370 --> 01:08:13,170
party or something but I just don't see

1680
01:08:17,809 --> 01:08:15,380
that happening in the near future but

1681
01:08:19,610 --> 01:08:17,819
somewhere down the road it would be

1682
01:08:23,480 --> 01:08:19,620
great to have something like that well

1683
01:08:25,190 --> 01:08:23,490
we had an atheist secular party standing

1684
01:08:29,690 --> 01:08:25,200
for the state elections in New South

1685
01:08:31,550 --> 01:08:29,700
Wales second was okay i would i would

1686
01:08:33,650 --> 01:08:31,560
actually oppose the idea of something

1687
01:08:37,220 --> 01:08:33,660
like an atheist party because i want it

1688
01:08:40,099 --> 01:08:37,230
to be religion blind it just you know

1689
01:08:42,019 --> 01:08:40,109
you can be a Lutheran and run for office

1690
01:08:43,610 --> 01:08:42,029
in the framework of this party as long

1691
01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:43,620
as you willing to say yeah we should

1692
01:08:47,030 --> 01:08:45,210
make our decisions and politics and

1693
01:08:49,039 --> 01:08:47,040
science on the basis of the available

1694
01:08:51,289 --> 01:08:49,049
evidence and we should arrive at it

1695
01:08:54,530 --> 01:08:51,299
logically reasonably and try as hard as

1696
01:08:56,539 --> 01:08:54,540
we can't overcome our biases I don't

1697
01:09:01,880 --> 01:08:56,549
care if the Pope did that I would say

1698
01:09:04,940 --> 01:09:01,890
good for him somehow I don't know to

1699
01:09:06,140 --> 01:09:04,950
mystic yeah I don't mention can you tell

1700
01:09:09,170 --> 01:09:06,150
us a little bit about your book before

1701
01:09:12,499 --> 01:09:09,180
we go payday in please well sure I'm

1702
01:09:16,760 --> 01:09:12,509
writing a book I'm late I'm going to be

1703
01:09:19,550 --> 01:09:16,770
later I'm feeling really awful but I had

1704
01:09:23,530 --> 01:09:19,560
to come to Australia and it's a it's a

1705
01:09:26,990 --> 01:09:23,540
it's another atheist book among the many

1706
01:09:28,910 --> 01:09:27,000
we're kind of what kind of positioning

1707
01:09:33,410 --> 01:09:28,920
it as I'm the Richard Dawkins with a

1708
01:09:34,910 --> 01:09:33,420
sense of humor ok which I unfortunately

1709
01:09:36,260 --> 01:09:34,920
makes it really hard to write because if

1710
01:09:39,829 --> 01:09:36,270
you sit down say well today I'm gonna be

1711
01:09:41,749 --> 01:09:39,839
funny maybe it just doesn't fly but I'm

1712
01:09:44,570 --> 01:09:41,759
struggling a little bit but we'll get it

1713
01:09:46,790 --> 01:09:44,580
out there and yeah that I think the plan

1714
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:46,800
is to get out sometime this summer

1715
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:49,530
they specifically told me they didn't

1716
01:09:57,860 --> 01:09:56,390
what does it have a title radio working

1717
01:10:00,110 --> 01:09:57,870
title since all those kind of working

1718
01:10:02,120 --> 01:10:00,120
title i absolutely hate do I have to say

1719
01:10:06,020 --> 01:10:02,130
it no you don't you don't have to do

1720
01:10:07,820 --> 01:10:06,030
anything I'm free open it I'll the

1721
01:10:13,340 --> 01:10:07,830
working title right now is the Hat happy

1722
01:10:15,860 --> 01:10:13,350
atheist okay I think website is yes we

1723
01:10:20,650 --> 01:10:15,870
are you know I'd rather be the

1724
01:10:23,390 --> 01:10:20,660
disgruntled ages the cranky atheist

1725
01:10:25,820 --> 01:10:23,400
something but no we'll work it out I'm

1726
01:10:27,770 --> 01:10:25,830
I'll come up with something done when my

1727
01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:27,780
publisher reads the first drafts that

1728
01:10:31,820 --> 01:10:29,370
are i'll be sending to him this week

1729
01:10:35,470 --> 01:10:31,830
your pricing wait a minute that's not

1730
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:35,480
just happy that's that's awfully vicious

1731
01:10:40,100 --> 01:10:37,890
so you said you might be doing a book to

1732
01:10:42,530 --> 01:10:40,110
it sometime these are we might well I

1733
01:10:44,450 --> 01:10:42,540
can assign yeah I'm dreaming okay this

1734
01:10:47,030 --> 01:10:44,460
is my fantasy is that the book sells

1735
01:10:48,470 --> 01:10:47,040
well yeah and so the publisher says you

1736
01:10:52,040 --> 01:10:48,480
get to go on a book tour of the entire

1737
01:10:54,260 --> 01:10:52,050
universe and they and they pay to send

1738
01:10:55,970 --> 01:10:54,270
me around the world and your worries

1739
01:10:57,680 --> 01:10:55,980
that's when they decide to send you to

1740
01:11:00,320 --> 01:10:57,690
Alpha Centauri because you know violent

1741
01:11:03,380 --> 01:11:00,330
rape is a bit of a long way oh yeah but

1742
01:11:05,240 --> 01:11:03,390
if we reach a speed of light see I'll go

1743
01:11:06,650 --> 01:11:05,250
there and i'll come back and all you

1744
01:11:10,850 --> 01:11:06,660
guys will be in the grave must will be

1745
01:11:13,430 --> 01:11:10,860
dancing well thanks for talking to us

1746
01:11:37,049 --> 01:11:13,440
today pays a my pleasure

1747
01:11:41,500 --> 01:11:39,189
thank you for listening to this week's

1748
01:11:44,469 --> 01:11:41,510
episode of the skeptic zone I certainly

1749
01:11:45,969 --> 01:11:44,479
hope you enjoyed it and as ever I really

1750
01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:45,979
hope that the show does keep you company

1751
01:11:52,120 --> 01:11:49,010
on those lonely long walks or whatever

1752
01:11:54,549 --> 01:11:52,130
you're doing until our next show this is

1753
01:11:59,529 --> 01:11:54,559
Richard Saunders signing off from Sydney

1754
01:12:03,819 --> 01:11:59,539
Australia you've been listening to the

1755
01:12:07,060 --> 01:12:03,829
skeptic zone visit our website at wwc a

1756
01:12:10,500 --> 01:12:07,070
petting zoo TV for comments contacts and